Suprima - Expert Witness Statements Requested

[Agile]

I do not think that the PCB was intentionally designed to fail!

We know that the vast majority of Suprima PCB failures are just solder joints. The wave flow soldering technique used is well established and generally gives few problems. If it were sub standard that would imply consistant quality control issues.

There is another issue which might be relevant! Most boiler designs have the PCB underneath so that the hot combustion chamber is above the electronic parts.

The Suprima has the PCB fitted just to the right of the combustion chamber so it potentially will get hotter in that position. This is why adequate convective air cooling is so critical on that design. I would have added reflective foil sandwich insulation between the PCB and the CC.

Furthermore the heat exchanger being cast iron has a much greater thermal capacity when the boiler shuts down than the more usual lightweight copper or stainless steel HEs. Thats why the correct pump connection is required to enable the overrun facility.

Replacement PCBs are a very profitable sale for a boiler manufacturer. However few other models other than Potterton Suprimas and Pumas seem to have had such a high failure rate.

Both those boiler PCBs have fuseable resistors which cause the PCB to fail if a gas valve or fan take a serious overcurrent. They will say thats a safety feature of the design. Other manufacturers dont seem to need it !

Tony

 

[Vinno]

Whats the value of your claim?

 

[corgiman]

One Milllion DOLLARS


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

 

[Vinno]

?

 

[simond]

Jeff

Are you saying in your paragraph 1 that you have had the boiler serviced every 12 months irrespective of usage? Or that you have had the boiler serviced more often than every 12 months? Or that you have had the boiler serviced less frequently than annually but when it had only had 20 days use?

If it is the former then I suspect Potty will settle out of Court. It could be very expensive for them if you get to Court and win.

If it is one of the latter options then I think you have a weak case.

 

[Agile]

In reality boilers are more reliable when constantly connected to the mains supply and used regularly.

In the case of the Suprima that includes having the knob in the middle range.

If the OP has been leaving the power off when the property is not in use or switching the knob to the off position then thats likely to reduce the reliability.

This arises from the need to keep electrolytics "formed" and the conditioning that arises from having power applied to VDRs.

Tony

 

[jeffuk]

The boiler had an annual service irrespective plus the repairs.

Jeff

 

[gazthepottertonengineer]

Jeff

Who have you been dealing with in customer services ?

 

[jeffuk]

Jeff

Who have you been dealing with in customer services ?

I'm dealing with their lawyers now. It's inappropriate to post personal details but the Baxi Potterton persons initials were SC and female.

The letter I was sent by her originally bizzarely (a) confirmed receipt of the original invoices for repairs from a corgi registered company (the company that carries out Domestic and General work in the West Country) and then said that (b) because I didn't send invoices confirming the work had been carried out by a Corgi engineer(!) and that (d) because the boiler was older than 5 years old that they (C) wouldn't offer anything towards the repair cost but on a non-negotiable basis ie they wouldn't be prepared to discuss my complaint with me but would offer a 1 year service contract instead as a "gesture of goodwill".

Really left no choice other than to go to court. I guess they'll have to explain how they reconcile (a) and (b) to a judge.

 

[namsag]

Jeff to aid your case why not contact BG national parts centre at leicester and ask the how many boards they have supplied over the years. Iwould imagine it will be a pain finding right person . but they will have a lot of information on record and would prob like to get some mpney back themselves

 

[ChrisR]

JeffUK I don't think you stand a chance.
Pcb's cannot be made to "last X years". They will have a MTBF figure (Mean Time Between Failures) but the graph of failure rate against time could have any shape. In classroom Statistics lessons it tends to be a "Normal" distribution (Guassian distribution, or "bell-shaped") but that's rarely accurate.
Let's say the MTBF might be 10 years. Some poor soul will get 4 failures in 4 years. Tough. Bad luck, but not proof of anything.
In the same way, if you give a die/dice to a lot of people, and get them to roll them 6 times, somebody somewhere will get 6 threes in a row. That does NOT mean his dice are loaded, it's just chance.

If you haven't had a week without a problem, then it clearly (imho) isn't all pcb problems in your case. Perhaps you're in a hollow and you get a lot of misty weather and consequent condensation on the electrode, or ......

I would have thought the boiler would have come out long before the first year was up, if it failed every week.

 

[kevincowley]

I am from merseyside (aintree) and in 1997 i bought a brand new house fitted with a potterson 30 suprima heating system,within the first few days it went into lockout mode,great,christmas and NO heat in my new house. Needless to say i got the builders on site to have a look at the system but it kept on going into lockout mode.10 years later and regular faults,watch dog inform me on national tv that the country is up in arms over this potterton pcb problem,apparently there was a glitch with their pcb. I had to pay £250 to get a replacement 5555603 which has been very good to be fair. Needles to say ive replaced acuators,thermiser,temp switches,control panel and now my gas valve has just gone which is going to cost £150 even thats been fitted by a friend..I wouldnt touch potterton with a barge pole in future,not just because their product has been very unreliable but more importantly potterton reluctance to hold their hand up and accept liability in my case. I always try to turn a negative in to a positive though and that is t6hat ive become very knowledgable on heating systems and how they work. I am not suprised to read about so many people on here as on my estate, 120 house were fitted with potterton heating and all my immeadiate neighbours have had pcb replacements and lockout problems..If you want to save a fortune then cut your losses and by a worcester combi system as i only hear rave reviews about reliabilty..Ive been in print for 30years and feel i know more about potterton systems and its faults..

 

[OLLIE20]

I am from merseyside (aintree) and in 1997 i bought a brand new house fitted with a potterson 30 suprima heating system,within the first few days it went into lockout mode,great,christmas and NO heat in my new house. Needless to say i got the builders on site to have a look at the system but it kept on going into lockout mode.10 years later and regular faults,watch dog inform me on national tv that the country is up in arms over this potterton pcb problem,apparently there was a glitch with their pcb. I had to pay £250 to get a replacement 5555603 which has been very good to be fair. Needles to say ive replaced acuators,thermiser,temp switches,control panel and now my gas valve has just gone which is going to cost £150 even thats been fitted by a friend..I wouldnt touch potterton with a barge pole in future,not just because their product has been very unreliable but more importantly potterton reluctance to hold their hand up and accept liability in my case. I always try to turn a negative in to a positive though and that is t6hat ive become very knowledgable on heating systems and how they work. I am not suprised to read about so many people on here as on my estate, 120 house were fitted with potterton heating and all my immeadiate neighbours have had pcb replacements and lockout problems..If you want to save a fortune then cut your losses and by a worcester combi system as i only hear rave reviews about reliabilty..Ive been in print for 30years and feel i know more about potterton systems and its faults..

Not learnt that much then

 

[baxpoti]

 

[nickso]

jeez, armchair experts to the back.

the only thing that regularly goes wrong with a suprima is the PCB. everything else is very reliable. with the last version of the pcb it's rare to see a breakdown now. i used to go into houses with the pcb under my arm a few years back. now they have almost all been replaced i leave it in the van to expect, and usually find, it's a system fault.