Tempermental Central Heating

[chicaguapa]

What have we got... A Glow worm Ultimate boiler in utility room with room stat in front room and RTV on 11 other radiators around the house. The water tank is in the loft and there is another tank in the airing cupboard. The system is 8 years old and was put in when the house was built.

What was happening... The heating was not coming on when timed to. I'm not sure when this started happening as it took a couple of days to realise. When we intitially noticed there was a problem we had heating in the morning and the evening but we couldn't get it to come on earlier in the evening ie 4pm and it would go off at random times later in the evening. We would put the heating setting to ON but it did not make any different and the boiler didn't fire up.

What have we done... A couple of weeks ago a plumber came and said we needed a new control panel. When he returned to fit it he was here ages and he said the wiring needed changing as the heating was going off when the water was reaching temperature. We weren't sure if the discovery of this meant that we hadn't needed a new control panel after all but we still ended up with a Drayton Lifestyle Dual Channel Programmer.

What is the problem now... After a couple of days we noticed that there wasn't enough hot water and it seemed that the timer for that wasn't working either. We called the same plumber and as we were going away for the weekend he said he would come when we were back. When we got back there didn't seem to be a problem anymore with the water. NOW since the day before yesterday we've noticed the CH is not working again and it's not coming on at all.

Summary It seems to be a intermittent problem that isn't there all the time but we have no control over the HW or CH and when it comes on or goes off.

I hope I can get some ideas as to what the problem might be. I'm also looking for a bit of advice about what to do about the plumber. If we are still having a problem does this mean we didn't need a new control panel? So do we get the same plumber back and tell him we paid £140 and the problem still exists so it needs sorting? Or shall we just get a new plumber and start paying all over again?

Thank you.

 

[chrishutt]

If we are still having a problem does this mean we didn't need a new control panel?

Quite possibly, by the sound of it. The important thing is that you have a heating engineer (not just a plumber) who understands how heating control systems work. I get the feeling from your post that your plumber wasn't one and may have been out of his depth, but you have to make that judgement.

Problems of the sort you describe are most often the result of motorised valve problems, as you will see if you search this forum. People who don't understand heating controls will often assume it's a programmer fault (since that's the bit they interact with) and change that unnecessarily.

 

[chicaguapa]

Thanks for replying. Should we call out a heating engineer then and write off the money we gave the other plumber? Although I do feel the plumber we've paid has an obligation to get it fixed, but I don't want to throw good money after bad. His card does say heating and plumbing though.

 

[chrishutt]

Should we call out a heating engineer then and write off the money we gave the other plumber?

I'm afraid that has to be your judgement. There's no point in calling back someone who doesn't know what they're doing, but does he?

The best test for future reference is to ask the engineer to describe how the control system works. The answer may not mean much to you, but if it sounds fairly coherent and logical, he's probably OK. If he blusters and sounds resentful of the question, avoid him. A true engineer would be delighted that you were interested and would do his best to explain.

 

[chicaguapa]

Hi, we have called out another plumber as we just want it fixed. Is there any redress for the other plumber who charged us £140 and didn't fix it?

My mother-in-law thinks he shouldn't have been able to change the control panel because it's electrical. I can't see how a heating engineer can install a CH system without getting involved in electrics though so I assumed it was okay. But I wondered if this might be why it's still not working?

 

[meldrew's_mate]

..... we have called out another plumber as we just want it fixed. Is there any redress for the other plumber who charged us £140 and didn't fix it?.....

If you can convince a court he didn't act in a competant manner and are prepared to put in the time and effort it is.

Have you given the first plumber a chance to put his (alledged) mistakes right? I say don't judge him until you have and he has failed you, after all we all try to make reasoned judgements every day; I try to honour my diagnoses and sometimes I get it wrong, though I like to think the customer appreciates the sometimes disproportionate amount of work I put in free of charge to correct my mistakes.

...My mother-in-law thinks he shouldn't have been able to change the control panel because it's electrical....

If it's a straight swap ("like for like") and not in a kitchen or bathroom (+some other "special locations") then it does not breach Building Regs so it's OK.

 

[chicaguapa]

Hi, yes we've called the original plumber a number of time to give him the chance to come back and fix it properly. We aren't getting any reply from him. I'm disappointed as he has done a bit of work for us before and was very professional. I know he is very busy but he also knows we have 2 children under 4 and no heating and he failed to fix the problem even though he walked away with a cheque for £140!

 

[compheat]

Is the heating/hot water working ok now?? Like Chris said faults like this can be down to M/valve or Cylinder stat. I'm a plumber by trade not a so called ENGINEER some people install some fix and some do both. I only install what i can fix I've installed heating system and controls for the last 30 years and you never stop learning. most electrician's i now don't wire up heating controls so its down to the plumber to sort out.

 

[chicaguapa]

Hi, No the heating is not working. We have borrowed some fan heaters for this evening. We have hot water but can't control when it starts to heat up so it's down to luck if we have enough for when we need it. But we have the immersion heater as back up anyway.

I have now signed up to a British Gas monthly plan and have purchased the immediate cover option at £165 so they are sending someone tomorrow. Hurray! It's impossible to find one of you guys, especially in the winter!

 

[compheat]

Turn your Heating/hot water controls on to constant. turn up your room stat and also your Cylinder stat to its highest setting and see if the boiler fires up and the rads get hot. The cylinder stat can be a big problem at times. and are you sure that BG cover you for the external controls

 

[ollski]

Sounds like the synchron motor in the 3 port valve is not fully moving across to make the heating only microswitch, but will work when the hot water is on because the valve only needs to motor half way across. Very much doubt you needed a new control panel, but you may have done...in any case unless he left you the one he replaced it is impossible to prove. Have you explained to BG that the boiler already has a fault?, otherwise it will rejected for a contract, however there are options that take into account an initial breakdown plus a contract.....god only knows what has happened to the wiring now.