Hi, I've got a live power cable under the bedroom floorboards that served a socket downstairs that's no longer required (and I don't want to blank off and remain visible for tidiness). The bedroom floor is topped with laminate flooring. I have removed a strip of the laminate flooring and a small floorboard to pull the cable up from downstairs but cannot get at the source of the cable i.e. where it is spurred from. I can secure the cable end in a 30A JB under the floorboards (accessible by unscrewing a small board if required) However, further under the floorboards I can see that the spur has a join in it using a chocolate block wrapped in insulation tape. Is this acceptable as it is?
Terminating a live cable under floorboards
- Thread starter Glyn1959
- Start date
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If, by 'chocolate block', you mean a bare connector strip, then I'm afraid not. It's probably not even 'insulation tape' in the strict sense! However, if the connector strip were within an acceptable enclosure (e.g. the things sometimes called a 'choc box'), that might well be OK.
Kind Regards, John
The fact the chocolate/brown junction box is taped, could be that it is damaged? If that was the case it would be unexceptionable.
Is it is a connection strip you are talking about? Again unexceptionable.
If you were to terminate this cable within junction box it would need to be easily accessible, a screwed floorboard I would not think would be future proof for ease of access. If a trap was made, with clear identification maybe?
Is it is a connection strip you are talking about? Again unexceptionable.
If you were to terminate this cable within junction box it would need to be easily accessible, a screwed floorboard I would not think would be future proof for ease of access. If a trap was made, with clear identification maybe?
2 options, that are acceptable.
Cage Clamp Wagos (ones with orange lever) terminated in a Wago Box with MF logo on it... the push fit ones are probably also acceptable... but my preference would be the level type.
Or, Ashley 3 way maintenance free junction box, also with MF maintenance free logo on it
if just terminating a live end... if joining 2 cables, then above 2 are acceptable as is crimping with a "proper" ratchet crimping tool, and heatshrinking on top.
Cage Clamp Wagos (ones with orange lever) terminated in a Wago Box with MF logo on it... the push fit ones are probably also acceptable... but my preference would be the level type.
Or, Ashley 3 way maintenance free junction box, also with MF maintenance free logo on it
if just terminating a live end... if joining 2 cables, then above 2 are acceptable as is crimping with a "proper" ratchet crimping tool, and heatshrinking on top.
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I'm not sure that actually true, either in terms of the regs or common sense. The regs, not unreasonably, require that (with the exceptions we all know), joints in cables have to be accessible for inspection. However, if one is simply terminating the end of an unused cable, for safety, I don't think that regulation applies, and nor do I see any common sense reason why it needs to be accessible, do you?
Kind Regards, John
As I've just written to PBoD, I really don't see why there's a need for accesibility (or an 'MF' method) if one is simply 'terminating a live end'.
Kind Regards, John
Extend the cable to the wall and put in a new socket or a FCU in the bedroom? it seems like these days there's never enough sockets etc and since you have the floor up its a perfect time to add one
Main thing to worry is that once you've seen one piece of cowboy work whats the rest of it like
Main thing to worry is that once you've seen one piece of cowboy work whats the rest of it like
If it is just the spur cable which has the join in it and is being no longer used then there will be no current in the cable so there is no danger of an unsound joint due to heat. The problem arises due to the fact that a live cable has inadequte insulation due to the tape. Although it needs rectifying I wouldn't rip up floors to sort it out personally.
If we concede that this is part of the wiring system, then define equipment within Part two, can we then say that requirement 513.1 should be upheld?
Agreed, there is a potential can of worms - but I personally would probably be inclined not to go down that road. I know that there are still some screw-terminal JBs under floors in my house, but I'm not even going to think about doing anything about that unless/until floor coverings are up for some other reason!
Kind Regards, John
FWIW, I would personally feel the same. If the present limited access does not allow the taped-up block to be regularised, I'd probably just terminate the end of the spur cable (not bothering about 'MF',for reasons I've stated). Mr Jobsworth would probably not agree, and might also point out that, at some time in the future, someone might find the end of the unused spur and decide to make use of it, without noticing the upstream taped-up block. However, we don't always listen to Mr J
Kind Regards, John
I think one needs to apply some common sense here, based on the spirit of what reasonably needs to be accessible for inspection. Whilst you argument is literally true, it would apply equally to cables - and you're surely not suggesting than anything other than surface wiring should be regarded as non-compliant?
In electrical, and common-sense terms, the 'dead end' of a live wire does not need to be accessible - and nor is their any relevance in the reason for requiring non-accessible JBs (the one exception to 513.1) to be 'MF'.
Kind Regards, John
513.1 refers to connections, so why surface mounted cable would be relevant, one does not know?
I was backing up my post with a relevant regulations, as you questioned if one applied to this situation.
Common-sense is not part of my comportment
Fair enough - I din't read it properly and didn't notice the 'connections' bit. However, it is talking about 'connections to items of electrical equipment', and I seriously doubt that the 'dead end' termination of an unused cable in a JB qualifies as that (per Part 2 definitions).
Whatever, I still contend that the common-sense view should prevail. Can you think of any (electrical) reason why the end of an usused cable needs to be accessible? In fact, if you did have a reason for believing that, then there would probably be a problem which could not be solved by using an MF JB - since 526 (which includes the waiver for accessibility if MF JBs are used) relates only to connections between conductors or connections between conductors and equipment - neither of which seems to include the end of an unused cable.
Kind Regards, John
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