The Aquarius.

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

You're the biggest troll there is on here !!!! Continually changing your silly user names ....himmagin walks with turkeys imamartion wannabediy silly sod .......

Someone is a bit sore because I fully and roundly refuted his claim about Italy saying they would accept children and women!
And it proves that bigoted plumbers will say anything, regardless of its veracity, in pursuance of their bigotry.
So he does what? Resorts to trolling!
Stupid is as stupid does!

 

[Notch7]

Resorts to trolling

What part of his post is trolling? -all he has done is point out your trolling behaviour.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

What part of his post is trolling? -all he has done is point out your trolling behaviour.

He was talking about you.
He is ignoring me, so he does not see my posts!
Remember?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Can you imagine if you were sinking off portsmouth and I insisted on taking you to France despite the solent coast guard being ready to assist.

Another, perhaps more suitable analogy:
Why do we need Mountain Rescue? These people knew that the mountains can be dangerous. They chose to go there of their own free will. It is their own fault if they are in difficulty. They should be left to die.
Why do we bother looking for drowning casualties in open water, they knew the dangers. They should be left to die.
Why do we bother with lifeguards on beaches, at swimming pools? They knew the dangers etc!
Why do we bother treating 'self-inflicted' injuries and illnesses? etc................

They are absurd and disgusting considerations.
The priority must always be to save life, irrespective of the circumstances. Then we can discuss the whys and wherefores afterwards.

It is a callous and selfish attitude to consider anything else.

 

[motorbiking]

At what point did I or anyone say don’t rescue them?

You seem to be an advocate of global free movement of people. Not everyone shares your view. In a democracy we all have a say and the will of the majority prevails. Italy doesn’t want 1000 of unchecked economic migrants dropped on its doorstep and they don’t want charities assisting people trafficking by the back door.

They have mobilised to assist the libyan coast guard and the NGO ships could be a effective help if they assisted the coordinating authorities rather than doing their own thing.

But French President Emmanuel Macron has now added his voice to critics who see the NGOs as helping the violent gangs that make millions offering mostly African migrants a passage to Europe. He said on Tuesday that Mission Lifeline had defied "all the rules" when it took migrants onto its boat last week when the Libyan coastguard was already intervening.

"We cannot permanently accept this situation," he warned in comments in Rome, adding: "In the end we are playing into the hands of smugglers by reducing the risks of the journey."

 

[Notch7]

Another, perhaps more suitable analogy:
Why do we need Mountain Rescue? These people knew that the mountains can be dangerous. They chose to go there of their own free will. It is their own fault if they are in difficulty. They should be left to die.
Why do we bother looking for drowning casualties in open water, they knew the dangers. They should be left to die.
Why do we bother with lifeguards on beaches, at swimming pools? They knew the dangers etc!
Why do we bother treating 'self-inflicted' injuries and illnesses? etc................

You call it an analogy, meanwhile in the real world above is considered garbage.

 

[Notch7]

silly user names ....himmagin walks with turkeys imamartion wannabediy silly sod ..

He was talking about you

Since your name is mentioned, I used that as confirmation he was talking about you.

A stupid person might reach a different conclusion.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

You call it an analogy, meanwhile in the real world above is considered garbage.

Since your name is mentioned, I used that as confirmation he was talking about you.

A stupid person might reach a different conclusion.

Troll, troll away, gently down the stream.

Still desperately trying to get the thread closed down by resorting to nothing more than abuse.
Absolutely typical of a troll.
Hopefully they will let you back into the cc forum where you can troll away to your hearts content and leave sensible discussion to the grown ups.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

At what point did I or anyone say don’t rescue them?

I was very disgusted by your pseudo legal babble, your quoting and misrepresentation of the SOLAS convention in an attempt to justify your callous and far-right attitude to the drowning of migrants.
How far down that route do we go before we make judgments on who should be saved and who should be left to die? Humanity will have reached a low point when we start making those decisions. (if it has not already reached that point).

You seem to be an advocate of global free movement of people. Not everyone shares your view.

There you go again, resorting to inventing arguments about what I have not said. Have you taken lessons from eeyore?
Fortunately, not everyone shares your view either, just the callous, far-right, selfish people.
It is basic survival approach for families who are destined to die, if they stay where they are, (through conflict, war, famine, etc) to volunteer the youngest and bravest to travel in an attempt to prolong the family line. You cannot stop such survival instincts. As I have already said, in such dire consequences that the head of the family suspects that to stay where they are will mean the end, they select the youngest and bravest to migrate in an attempt to prolong the family line.
Until we can remove the need for that survival instinct, we cannot hope to eradicate it.
Callously allowing migrants to drown will not prevent others from attempting the crossing, not now, nor any time in the future.

In a democracy we all have a say and the will of the majority prevails.

Was it put to the people?

Italy doesn’t want 1000 of unchecked economic migrants dropped on its doorstep and they don’t want charities assisting people trafficking by the back door.

The far-right minister does not.

They have mobilised to assist the libyan coast guard

And we have reports of the behaviour of the Libyan coastguard effecting "rescues".

and the NGO ships could be a effective help if they assisted the coordinating authorities rather than doing their own thing.

If the coordinates of the drowning migrants is denied to the NGO ships, it is the Rome based rescue center that is cutting the NGO ships out of the operation.
How can ships dedicated to rescuing drowning migrants be thwarting the rescue of drowning migrants.
You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
How far will your callous, far-right attitude take your imagination?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

In the majority of cases the coordinating authority will be the libyan coast guard,

The coordinating authority is the Rome based center. That center passes the information to the Libyan coastguard, but, in some instances, not to the dedicated rescue ships, to prevent then from effecting the rescue. That also might fly in the face of the convention!.

Further to my previous comment, Italy has, without doubt flown in the face of the spirit and wording of the convention.
The coordinating center is based in Rome, ITALY!

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Facil...d/Documents/Resolution MSC.153(78)-MSC 78.pdf
Italy has refused to provide that place of safety.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

It is not just the NGO ships that recognise that the Libyan coastguard flouts human rights:

Mission Lifeline also defended itself from Macron's accusations on Tuesday, saying that it had not broken "all the rules", only one: it had refused, like other charities, to hand over migrants to the Libyan coastguard.
The Libyan coastguard is widely suspected of abuses and migrants who are returned to the lawless and violence-wracked north African country face further violence, charities say.
Handing over the migrants to the Libyan coastguard – which is funded by the EU – would have "contravened the Geneva convention on refugees and been against the law," Mission Lifeline said.
In March, Proactiva Open Arms had a boat impounded on the Italian island of Sicily after being accused of complicity in people-smuggling for refusing to hand over rescued migrants to the Libyan coast guard. But an Italian judge later backed the charity, saying that the fundamental rights of migrants could not be guaranteed in Libya

From MB's link.

Also from MB's link, and reaffirming my previous post:

But that does not mean a country can simply hold up a stop sign and wash its hands of the situation when a vessel packed with vulnerable migrants approaches its shores. UNHCR also pointed to "key treaties" stating that a nation which has responsibility for an area in which a search-and-rescue operation takes place is required to "exercise primary responsibility" for coordinating the migrants' safe disembarkation.
In the case of the Aquarius, which is operated by SOS Méditerranée, UNHCR said that the dwindling provisions on board created "an urgent humanitarian imperative" for Italy and Malta to allow the boat to dock.

From the IMO Convention, showing that masters have full discretion:

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Facil...d/Documents/Resolution MSC.153(78)-MSC 78.pdf

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

How would anyone differentiate between the RNLI and the charity funded NGO ships operating in the Mediterranean?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

And we have reports of the behaviour of the Libyan coastguard effecting "rescues".

If anyone cares to search for such reports, there are many.
Even the UN recognises the abuse and mistreatment given to migrants by Libyan coastguard.

Abdalrahman al-Milad, who heads a coastguard unit in Zawiya, just west of Tripoli, was one of six people sanctioned for involvement in people trafficking or smuggling in Libya on June 7, in the first move of its kind.
The sanctions freeze bank accounts of those listed and ban them from travelling internationally, and are an attempt to crack down on smuggling networks that have sent hundreds of thousands of migrants on a risky voyage across the Mediterranean.
The U.N. Security Council said Milad’s unit was “consistently linked with violence against migrants and other human smugglers” and cited claims by a U.N. panel of experts that he and other coastguard members were “directly involved in the sinking of migrant boats using firearms”.
It also listed witness testimony from migrants who said they were brought on one of the ships used by Milad to a detention centre where they were reportedly held in brutal conditions and beaten.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-e...s-hits-migrants-to-protect-them-idUKKBN1JF2I0

European governments are knowingly complicit in the torture and abuse of tens of thousands of refugees and migrants detained by Libyan immigration authorities in appalling conditions in Libya, said Amnesty International

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...t-in-horrific-abuse-of-refugees-and-migrants/

The coastguard are obviously poachers turned gamekeepers.

The Italian attitude is not just recent:

Since late 2016, EU Member States - particularly Italy - have implemented a series of measures aimed at closing off the migratory route through Libya and across the central Mediterranean, with little care for the consequences for those trapped within Libya’s lawless borders

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...t-in-horrific-abuse-of-refugees-and-migrants/

Despite some successful rescue operations, the United Nations and many humanitarian groups, including Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International (which recently released a report on this topic), have repeatedly accused the coastguard of endangering refugees’ lives, among other serious human rights violations. The latest UN Panel of Experts on Libya report to the Security Council revealed a disturbing trend in the Libyan coastguard. According to the report,

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/the-failure-of-libya-s-eu-backed-coastguard

 

[Notch7]

mistreatment given to migrants by Libyan coastguard

Who are funded by the EU.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-e...t-guard-inhuman-un-rights-chief-idUKKBN1DE29W

Interesting how remainers neglect to criticise the EU's involvement.

 

[motorbiking]

How would anyone differentiate between the RNLI and the charity funded NGO ships operating in the Mediterranean?

RNLI do what the coastguard tells them. As would the vast majority of vessels assisting in a rescue. It’s what everyone is trained to do, from level 2 powerboat to commercial instructors