The Part P scam

[Milligan]

So, I've enquired of my local council how I can go about getting my work certified (I haven't started yet).

They tell me that I need to fill out a form and pay £190 and then they appoint an electrician to come out and inspect and do whatever they do and then they'll issue a certificate.

This sounds like a complete scam to me!

What incentive do these appointed people have to actually issue a certificate rather than pick holes in what's been done and create work for themselves?

So her response is that I should hire someone to do the work... what a load of horse turd. All I want is my dam cooker hooked up and I am completely able to do that in the correct manner.

Is it any wonder people then resort to "just plug it into a socket"!! This whole scam has completely defeated the purpose of bringing it in the first place!

Rant over.

 

[Spark123]

You just realised?

How about a fully qualified electrician who carries out work in places such as factories, schools, shops, hospitals etc but can't install a socket in their own kitchen (without a £100+ bill).

 

[Milligan]

You just realised?

How about a fully qualified electrician who carries out work in places such as factories, schools, shops, hospitals etc but can't install a socket in their own kitchen (without a £100+ bill).

I sympathise. I moved back to the country 2 yrs ago and only recently bought a house so this is all news to me...

So the question would be; what are the consequences of not notifying.
Obviously I am not advocating that anyone shouldn't, I'd just like to know what happens...

My greatest bug bear is that this is such a small job I can't actually get a spark to pitch up and am loath to do all the work myself and then pay the same amount just to have someone come and look at it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So, I've enquired of my local council how I can go about getting my work certified (I haven't started yet).

They tell me that I need to fill out a form and pay £190 and then they appoint an electrician to come out and inspect and do whatever they do and then they'll issue a certificate.

No - that's the way it works, just like any other notifiable work.

You submit a notification, pay the fee, they check, and if OK issue a completion notice.

You should be grateful that your council isn't one of the ones who take your £190 and then make you pay for an electrician to inspect.

This sounds like a complete scam to me!

Why is it any more of a scam than if the electrician was a council employee?

What incentive do these appointed people have to actually issue a certificate rather than pick holes in what's been done and create work for themselves?

Professional responsibility, and legal common sense

If your work really is OK then you've got to figure that they aren't going to lie and say it is not - you can just imagine the trouble they would all be in if they were found to be doing that.

So her response is that I should hire someone to do the work... what a load of horse turd. All I want is my dam cooker hooked up and I am completely able to do that in the correct manner.

Then you should have no problems. What are you doing, anyway? Is "hooking up" your cooker actually notifiable?

This whole scam has completely defeated the purpose of bringing it in the first place!

The council's behaviour is not a scam. They are doing what they are supposed to regarding work for which a notice has been given in accordance with regulations 12(2)(a) and 13. What exactly are they defeating by behaving correctly?

 

[Milligan]

By charging £190 for a notification and inspection they will encourage a great deal of people to either not bother or go around the rules.

Yes, the work I am doing is notifiable as it is in the kitchen - it's adding a spur off the CU for the oven/gas hob ignition.

What I have seen advocated on other threads is "just put a plug on it and plug it in" which talks to my point about people going round it.

It sounds like a scam to me because there is only a marginal incentive for these guys to pass certificates - I am not saying sparks are dishonest, but I am sure there are a few cowboys in the trade who've cottoned onto the fact that they can BS a few quid out of someone by saying a component isn't compliant, or perhaps there are ambiguities in the code which may lead a spark to disqualify something based on their interpretation of a code. e.g. the whole debate about maintenance free JB's below floor boards.

If the inspectors worked for the council they couldn't directly benefit from disqualifying the work as they wouldn't be in a position to do the work.
Much like Council MOT stations - which is perhaps a good parrallel.

P.S. I didn't mean the council is scamming, I meant the whole Part P is a scam.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

your local authority will shaft your for a £190 for that experience.

Same as any notifiable work.

 

[The Dentist]

I think the scam part is the bit where the council have to get involved, what the heck has any of this really got to do with local government? I have always thought that the rule whereas a qualified, competent electrician is not allowed to offer a check and signoff service, on work not installed by themselves is ridiculous, as this is simply what the council arranges to be done for you, but takes you hard earned money for the privilege

Incidentally, do any of you lot contract to the LBC’s to do this, and what percentage of the councils fees get passed to the spark? Just another tax as I see it

Part P has probably encouraged more DIYers to break the law, and resulted in possibly even more dangerous installations, as they are now less inclined to ask a spark to give it the once over because all they hear is part P this and part P that

Its incompetence at its best

 

[ban-all-sheds]

By charging £190 for a notification and inspection they will encourage a great deal of people to either not bother or go around the rules.

They are forbidden in law from making a profit out of it.

Yes, the work I am doing is notifiable as it is in the kitchen - it's adding a spur off the CU for the oven/gas hob ignition.

That's not a spur, it's a new circuit.

Given all the things you need to know to successfully design and install a circuit, and the knowledge and equipment needed to test a circuit before putting it into service, what's your suggestion for ensuring that people do it competently?

It sounds like a scam to me because there is only a marginal incentive for these guys to pass certificates - I am not saying sparks are dishonest, but I am sure there are a few cowboys in the trade who've cottoned onto the fact that they can BS a few quid out of someone by saying a component isn't compliant, or perhaps there are ambiguities in the code which may lead a spark to disqualify something based on their interpretation of a code. e.g. the whole debate about maintenance free JB's below floor boards.

If you are not skillful, knowledgeable and confident enough to do the work and to stick up for what you've done if the electrician falsely says it's no good then maybe you shouldn't be doing it?

If the inspectors worked for the council they couldn't directly benefit from disqualifying the work as they wouldn't be in a position to do the work.
Much like Council MOT stations - which is perhaps a good parrallel.

Never seen one of those.

I have though seen countless garages who do MOTs and are in a position to benefit from saying remedial work is necessary. Are they all scammers?

P.S. I didn't mean the council is scamming, I meant the whole Part P is a scam.

But earlier you said

This whole scam has completely defeated the purpose of bringing it in the first place!

i.e. you thought there was a purpose for bringing it in.

Are you now saying that there was no purpose?

What are you really complaining about? The very existence of the Building Regulations, or the cost of notifying?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think the scam part is the bit where the council have to get involved, what the heck has any of this really got to do with local government?

Who else should be involved with checking/enforcing compliance with the Building Regulations.

I have always thought that the rule whereas a qualified, competent electrician is not allowed to offer a check and signoff service, on work not installed by themselves is ridiculous, as this is simply what the council arranges to be done for you, but takes you hard earned money for the privilege

If Milligan employed an electrician to come to his house, inspect and test his work, and issue a certificate for it, how much less than £190 would that really cost him?

Just another tax as I see it

Then you are hard of seeing.

Part P has probably encouraged more DIYers to break the law, and resulted in possibly even more dangerous installations, as they are now less inclined to ask a spark to give it the once over because all they hear is part P this and part P that

Inspection and testing are not notifiable, nor even within the scope of the Building Regulations. There's no reason for an electrician not to do it, and as long as what you've done is OK they have no incentive to turn you in for not notifying.

 

[Johnmelad502]

I turn down a lot of requests for quotes for things like fitting electric showers, extractor fans etc. But I bet the next person they go to who is not qualified, does it for them.

Some of these people are on the breadline and can't afford a spark or go through their LA.

Yes I do notifiable work for myself and have just run a cable for my son's cooker.

I have a friend who works at Sellafield nuclear power station where he was trained as an electrician (qualifications galore) from age 16. He has fitted some serious electrical equipment in the past and is now a project manager.

He had to pay a spark to fit his shower when he moved a couple of years ago. How stupid is that?

 

[Spark123]

Sellafield isn't a nuclear power station

He didn't have to pay a spark to fit his shower - he could have notified it and done the work himself. If he has the relevent qualifications and the correct calibrated test equipment then assuming Copeland or Allerdale, he can apply to them for a reduced rate.

 

[Paul_C]

They tell me that I need to fill out a form and pay £190 and then they appoint an electrician to come out and inspect and do whatever they do and then they'll issue a certificate.

This sounds like a complete scam to me!

Welcome back to Britain, where regulations have run riot and taxes are out of control.

If you lived in this area though, you'd get a real "bargain," as for the same thing the local council would demand "only" £124 plus VAT. Yes, after paying VAT on the materials to do the job, you are then still expected to pay more VAT on the council fee.

 

[Johnmelad502]

Sellafield isn't a nuclear power station

He didn't have to pay a spark to fit his shower - he could have notified it and done the work himself. If he has the relevent qualifications and the correct calibrated test equipment then assuming Copeland or Allerdale, he can apply to them for a reduced rate.

Forgive me for calling it a power station. Petty....

I have a friend who works at Sellafield formerly a nuclear power station

He got a spark in because he could afford it, he has no test equipment and did not want the hastle of borrowing it from BNFL.

Of course he has the relavent qualifications.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sellafield isn't a nuclear power station

There used to be some on the site, but it's been a while. If that electrician's training dated back to those days then he's a bit out of date.

I've never understood why people think that an "xxx in a nuclear power station" is necessarily anything special anyway. I expect Sellafield employs car park attendants, canteen cooks and office cleaners, but I don't suppose they are any different to any other car park attendants, canteen cooks or office cleaners.

Mind you, there used to be a very fit cleaner at BNFL in Warrington who wore a bikini to work in hot weather....

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

So, I've enquired of my local council how I can go about getting my work certified (I haven't started yet).

They tell me that I need to fill out a form and pay £190 and then they appoint an electrician to come out and inspect and do whatever they do and then they'll issue a certificate.

This sounds like a complete scam to me!

What incentive do these appointed people have to actually issue a certificate rather than pick holes in what's been done and create work for themselves?

So her response is that I should hire someone to do the work... what a load of horse turd. All I want is my dam cooker hooked up and I am completely able to do that in the correct manner.

Is it any wonder people then resort to "just plug it into a socket"!! This whole scam has completely defeated the purpose of bringing it in the first place!

Rant over.

Yip, thats about right.

Its the law. Not very clever, but thats how it is.