Up-to-date thoughts on Fluless gas fires

[ianmcd]

I wouldnt recommend any flueless gas fire think of your childhood with portable gas heaters , if you really want a good alternative google infra red radiant heaters I am a gas engineer and never thought I would recommend these but I got one FOC and they are great

 

[Gary27]

I wouldnt recommend any flueless gas fire think of your childhood with portable gas heaters , if you really want a good alternative google infra red radiant heaters I am a gas engineer and never thought I would recommend these but I got one FOC and they are great

I am just doing a bit of research, it's not something I know much about, thanks

 

[ianmcd]

I never knew anything about them either but I have one and love it , very cheap to run and great benefits great as a stand alone heater far better than a flueless gas fire they produce too much water vapour and the ventilation requirements always out way the heat benefeits

 

[mattysupra]

what is the difference between a flue-less fire and a gas cooker?

A flue-less fire has a catalyst but what does a cooker have then?


Someone said about making your house damp? If we worked on a average humidity of 55% RH then what would you expect the RH to raise to?

As a example lets say a 2KW fire in a insulated room which is 30 cubic meters?

 

[ChrisR]

The thinking behind cookers was based on the pattern of use - they're not unattended like other appliances. Ovens turn themselves down to a very low gas rate, and hob rings aren't left at a high rate for very long.

Filters aren't the same as catalysts. Catalysts convert poisonous CO to benign CO2, by promoting a reaction with atmospheric Oxygen. The catalyst can fail though, and there's no inbuilt CO detector. If you do use one of these fires you really would be well advised to fit a CO detector as well.

 

[mattysupra]

The thinking behind cookers was based on the pattern of use - they're not unattended like other appliances. Ovens turn themselves down to a very low gas rate, and hob rings aren't left at a high rate for very long.

So what happens in commercial kitchens or say a domestic kitchen where someone maybe cooking all day or in domestic where they might have cooker on all day making jam or some thing?

I have also been to a few houses (more the older generation) that have a gas burner on there hob alight heating there kitchen etc. When i was younger i remember my friends mom used to have the hob on all day and night as that is how they heated the house (before CH)


So i dont fully understand the dangers here (well i do understand as people have been killed by CO2 ) but trying to get my head around how a gas cooker can be left on all day long without issues but a flueless fire with a catalyst is a issue?

I thought that with boilers with sealed systems that the air / fuel mixture being incorrect etc was teh cause of CO2 and then a failed flue / breach etc would now pump CO2 into a house. But actually caused by the design and mixture ratios inside boilers.

A flueless fire dont have the same set up does it so cant ever really produce harmful levels of CO2 ?


Sorry for taking over the thread! i would love to learn and have a better understanding of all this.

 

[Dan Robinson]

if you're going to take the thread over, at least use the right terminology-

CO2 isn't poisenous. CO is.

Cookers shouldn't be used for heat sources. it is stupid.

driving on the motorway at 120mph is stupid. but you dont crash and die everytime you do it.


commercial kitchen have massive vents, extractor fans and interlocks.

 

[Dan Robinson]

read your bit on boilers, and flueless fire setups and can't understand what you sre asking?

any appliance burning gas without the correct supply of air will produce CO.

A flueless fire has no flue for the POCs to go up so you are relying on a cat, and the hope that some numpty has not blocked the (assuming its fitted) vent.

the by-product of burning gas and air is co2 and h2o. if the combustion is off, you get h2o and co and some co2.

 

[mattysupra]

if you're going to take the thread over, at least use the right terminology-

CO2 isn't poisenous. CO is.

Cookers shouldn't be used for heat sources. it is stupid.

driving on the motorway at 120mph is stupid. but you dont crash and die everytime you do it.


commercial kitchen have massive vents, extractor fans and interlocks.

Sorry i got the terminology wrong. Im trying to learn and now i know its CO.

So its because they have large extractors etc that its o.k then?

Do these extractors cut off the gas supply if the filters are blocked or a fan fails etc?

Funny thing is i was sat in the local cafe this morning that was displaying all its high rating certs for food safety etc and i noticed the windows was covered in condensation. Its a open kitchen area and i was looking in thinking "they could do with ventalation in here" , there was none apart from a window open and a through wall extractor that i dought was working.

So what are the regs on this? if they need a new cooker and you was called in to install would you check the ventilation for the area? is there a certain vent area that they need for a cooker?

 

[mattysupra]

read your bit on boilers, and flueless fire setups and can't understand what you sre asking?

any appliance burning gas without the correct supply of air will produce CO.

A flueless fire has no flue for the POCs to go up so you are relying on a cat, and the hope that some numpty has not blocked the (assuming its fitted) vent.

the by-product of burning gas and air is co2 and h2o. if the combustion is off, you get h2o and co and some co2.

O.k, what causes a boiler and a flueless fire to start producing CO?

At what point do we need a CAT?

What does a CAT do?

If someone blocks the vent to the room with a fire that requires a flue then what will happen?

If someone blocks the vent to the room with a flueless fire what happens?

 

[ChrisR]

If you think flueless fires can't be dangerous, there's a death of a person and her dog in Cwmbran that need explaining...

Memory and mental arithmetic tells me that 2kW burner produces approx 150ml of water per hour, by the way. Might be wrong though.

---
Already explained what a cat does and why.

Yes of course there are regs about vents for cookers as well as fires and yes we check them.
This is a diy forum though, not for regurgitation of regs - sounds like you'd be telling us they aren't right anway cos there was steam in your caff.?

 

[mattysupra]

If you think flueless fires can't be dangerous, there's a death of a person and her dog in Cwmbran that need explaining...

Memory and mental arithmetic tells me that 2kW burner produces approx 150ml of water per hour, by the way. Might be wrong though.

I dont know about flueless fires, hence im asking questions to find out.


Your answer to the amount of moisture is a great help. So if the fire has a flue your not adding extra moister to the room, only flueless fires?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Matt, have you actually read any of the other posts?



1, in complete combustion caused by lack of air, or no clearance of combustion products.

2. if there is no flue.

3 converts onr thing to another, just like a car exhaust

4. see 1

5. see 1.

 

[petit_pablo]

Holy crap ive just looked at the CVO website

If room is smaller tham 100m3 we advise buying the 2.7kw version. The air vent must be over 1 meter away from the appliance. The Room must have a window which can be opened if required. This type of appliance is classed as a decorative secondary heat source and the room must have primary heating like radiators

The 2.7kw version requires minimum room volume of 27m3

CE regulations forbid installation in Bedrooms, Bathrooms or Basements.

Um.. what now. Whats CE got to do with it? GSIUR would be better followed.

If you must have a flueless, get a burley or something.

 

[unky]

Read this,
HSE Flueless fires
and the Research report