What is Mains gas off the national grid

[OwainDIYer]

Its the tax put on petrol which makes these taxless alternatives more interesting.

However, if any were much used then the gov woudl add all the tax!

Tony

that could be the beauty of self filling NG at your home though. you have already paid the tax and wild fluctuations are less likely. sadly the way NG gas prices are going in general its maybe not be worth it.

Ah, but then the govt could tax *all* Natural Gas at motor fuel rates

 

[nickso]

Its the tax put on petrol which makes these taxless alternatives more interesting.

However, if any were much used then the gov woudl add all the tax!

Tony

that could be the beauty of self filling NG at your home though. you have already paid the tax and wild fluctuations are less likely. sadly the way NG gas prices are going in general its maybe not be worth it.

Ah, but then the govt could tax *all* Natural Gas at motor fuel rates

ah, they could but would they get away with it? for very small minority? i doubt it.

 

[Agile]

They get away with taxing everything else!

Except cider which is aboyt £1.50 for two litres in the cheap places.

This thread has reminded me that I have a small diesel. How much do chip shops charge for their used chip oil?

Presumably this biodiesel is fully taxed and the same as ordinary diesel?

This one is not:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/10/biofuels.alternativeenergy

Tony

 

[AquaHydroChem]

CNG is Compressed Natural Gas, methane. This [the same as oxygen] cannot exist as liquid without refrigerating to a much lower temperature as well as compressing it. You are therefore storing gas at very high pressures which needs very heavy cylinders. You can't store much mass of gas in these cylinders.

I never though this thread would have so much interest
Very interacting point about natural gas same boiling temperature as oxygen
As my oxygen bottles are pressurized at about 3000 psi which is a dam sight more then my propane bottle
It would seem my LPG tank would explode if natural gas was pumped into it until it was a liquid
But could I pump the natural gas into the tank at the tanks designed pressure and still compress the gas so as the tank would fill up with enough gas I need?

Its the tax put on petrol which makes these taxless alternatives more interesting.

However, if any were much used then the gov woudl add all the tax!

Tony

that could be the beauty of self filling NG at your home though. you have already paid the tax and wild fluctuations are less likely. sadly the way NG gas prices are going in general its maybe not be worth it.

Right but would my LPG kit run on natural gas
what are the differences in octane rating levels for spontaneous combustion

Its the tax put on petrol which makes these taxless alternatives more interesting.

However, if any were much used then the gov woudl add all the tax!

Tony

that could be the beauty of self filling NG at your home though. you have already paid the tax and wild fluctuations are less likely. sadly the way NG gas prices are going in general its maybe not be worth it.

Ah, but then the govt could tax *all* Natural Gas at motor fuel rates

There is no road fuel tax on home heating gas
Just the 5% VAT

They get away with taxing everything else!

Except cider which is aboyt £1.50 for two litres in the cheap places.

This thread has reminded me that I have a small diesel. How much do chip shops charge for their used chip oil?

Presumably this biodiesel is fully taxed and the same as ordinary diesel?

Tony

No!
I belive you are legally allowed to run x-emount of used chip fat oil with out being taxed
have you tried Kerosine with some added lubricants? nod nod wink wink

 

[mysteryman]

The boiling point of methane and oxygen is not necessarily the same. The point is that they both need refrigerating as well as compressing to liquify them.

An LPG converted vehicle will not run on CNG any more than an LPG boiler would run on NG.

If you are caught running a road vehicle on kerosene, you will lose the vehicle and will be prosecuted. The smell is a dead givaway!

 

[nickso]

But could I pump the natural gas into the tank at the tanks designed pressure and still compress the gas so as the tank would fill up with enough gas I need?

according the link: "Cars are typically fitted with a single steel cylinder of around 90 litres capacity that can hold 16 kg gas, equivalent to 23 litres of petrol".

that would infer you could. whether or not you could use an LPG tank to do so would need some research.

Right but would my LPG kit run on natural gas
what are the differences in octane rating levels for spontaneous combustion

if you already have a running LPG kit i can't see you making a huge saving myself. i can imagine the biggest expense being the installation of a gas pipe to outside if you are not an RGI and the compressor setup. that's also assuming your LPG kit doesn't need major adaption, i imagine it would. the other drawback of CNG is going to be distance. once you run out on the road you are unlikely to be able to fill up again until you get home. great for round town but not great on a long run.

just my thoughts. if you do get it running let us know as i'm considering an LPG setup but would prefer CNG if it was viable.

 

[nickso]

The boiling point of methane and oxygen is not necessarily the same. The point is that they both need refrigerating as well as compressing to liquify them.

does it? the inference of that link is LNG needs cooling, CNG does not as it remains a gas.

An LPG converted vehicle will not run on CNG any more than an LPG boiler would run on NG.

but it can be adapted to do so, can the LPG car kit?

If you are caught running a road vehicle on kerosene, you will lose the vehicle and will be prosecuted. The smell is a dead givaway!

it's a big fine too IIRC.

 

[mysteryman]

No, the facts are that you cannot liquify methane [or oxygen or nitrogen or many other gases] without refrigerating it.

You can liquify propane and butane [and isobutane and carbon dioxide, for example] by compressing them. Compressing any gas raises its temperature, and these gases need to be cooled back to ambient temperature.

The others need taking down to much lower temperatures to liquify them.

 

[mysteryman]

CNG does indeed remain a gas, which is why you can't store much mass of fuel, and why you need a very heavy cylinder to store it.

All gases will liquify if you cool them enough.

Methane is one of those gases which need to be kept very cold to keep them liquid. It cannot exist as liquid at normal ambient temperature, regardless of pressure.

 

[nickso]

after a bit of reading it seems the biggest problem is finding a home filling kit. the manufacturer of the mainstream kit went bust and was in the USA meaning a potential bombshell from the customs tax bill anyway.

the tanks don't seem to be all that heavier than an LPG one.

i personally don't think its worth it in this country. i can imagine the confusion and possible horror in the voices of your insurance broker too. one insurer i used was convinced LPG stood for low pressure gas.

 

[chapeau]

Critical temperature is the temperature above which it is not possible to liquify a gas by pressure alone.

The critical pressure is the pressure required to liquify the gas at that temperature.