What year were PVC cables introduced?
- Thread starter AdamW
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Bit of a grey area, if you'll forgive the pun....
VIR was certainly around till mid sixties. My previous house was completed in January 1968, and has pvc T & E. These dates are not definitive.
But the spanner in the works was that there were materials used for cable insulation before pvc was accepted as norm.
I'm sure pvc was used in dom installs before 68, just in the same way I have found VIR in houses built after 68.
To answer your question, I would not expect to see any VIR in a property wired after 1970.
Don't ask me to date lead insulated cable.....
VIR was certainly around till mid sixties. My previous house was completed in January 1968, and has pvc T & E. These dates are not definitive.
But the spanner in the works was that there were materials used for cable insulation before pvc was accepted as norm.
I'm sure pvc was used in dom installs before 68, just in the same way I have found VIR in houses built after 68.
To answer your question, I would not expect to see any VIR in a property wired after 1970.
Don't ask me to date lead insulated cable.....
PVC was first produced commercially in 1933, 2 years before nylon.
Here is a example of the early use of nylon.
But I digress.
As SS said, the introduction of PVC cables began in the 60's, but there was a fair bit of overlap with VIR.
Early PVC cables did not have the longevity of the current (
) stuff, and even disregarding things like lighting circuit cpcs, 60's and 70's houses with PVC cables are candidates for investigation.
I wouldn't have thought there'd be much wrong with cables dating from 1985 - I think that even postdates M-B's favourite 7/029 imperial stuff.
Why?
Here is a example of the early use of nylon.
But I digress.
As SS said, the introduction of PVC cables began in the 60's, but there was a fair bit of overlap with VIR.
Early PVC cables did not have the longevity of the current (
) stuff, and even disregarding things like lighting circuit cpcs, 60's and 70's houses with PVC cables are candidates for investigation.I wouldn't have thought there'd be much wrong with cables dating from 1985 - I think that even postdates M-B's favourite 7/029 imperial stuff.
Why?
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OK Smartypants......That is indeed what I meant....
Ah, so it really isn't clear cut.
The reason I asked was I thought it would be around the mid 70s that PVC was introduced. Thus if I look at a house which has PVC it would likely be less than 25 years old (yes, I know it is 2004 now!).
As it turns out, that is a very wrong assumption, so even with PVC you need to try to find out how old the wiring is.
Are there any pointers that tell you a house is pre-1980s wiring? When were skirting board sockets banned?
I remember reading something about aluminium cables being used in the US, a bu**er to terminate and it was said they are a fire risk too.
I wonder what the next generation of domestic cables will be like...
The reason I asked was I thought it would be around the mid 70s that PVC was introduced. Thus if I look at a house which has PVC it would likely be less than 25 years old (yes, I know it is 2004 now!).
As it turns out, that is a very wrong assumption, so even with PVC you need to try to find out how old the wiring is.
Are there any pointers that tell you a house is pre-1980s wiring? When were skirting board sockets banned?
I remember reading something about aluminium cables being used in the US, a bu**er to terminate and it was said they are a fire risk too.
I wonder what the next generation of domestic cables will be like...
Multicored conductors?AdamW said:
Dunno. Were they ever "banned"?
They are a nightmare. Bit like VIR - don't touch unless you are going to replace NOW. Don't think it was ever used here?
A lot fatter, if the persistent rumours of the demise of the ring main and the disappearance of 4mm are to be believed...
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My question is... When were those two pin sockets generally falling out of use, and how long was their overlap with BS546 3 pin?
About 10 months ago, we were making this excuse for a film in this abandoned house, and they had those two pin sockets there, plus some skirting board mounted BS1363 sockets, and on half way up the wall in the bathroom. There was also the old fashioned bakelite lightswitches.
I'd say the house was last inhabited 1980s.
About 10 months ago, we were making this excuse for a film in this abandoned house, and they had those two pin sockets there, plus some skirting board mounted BS1363 sockets, and on half way up the wall in the bathroom. There was also the old fashioned bakelite lightswitches.
I'd say the house was last inhabited 1980s.
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Ban I'd say in my experience, stranded ring & lighting cable was 60's also - tinned conductors.
Have seen sockets in skirting right up to 80's, but whether this was cut-off point or not don't know. My guess would be that it has been "a common sense" rule longer than we think, but some have chosen to ignore it.
Have seen sockets in skirting right up to 80's, but whether this was cut-off point or not don't know. My guess would be that it has been "a common sense" rule longer than we think, but some have chosen to ignore it.
securespark said:
Some muppets still install on skirting, but it contravenes regulation 553-01-06, which states:
"A socket-outlet on a wall or similar structure shall be mounted at a height above the floor or any working surface to minimize the risk of mechanical damage to the socket-outlet or to an associated plug and its flexible cord which might be caused during insertion, use or the withdrawal of the plug."
In other words, high enough so you don't demolish it with the hoover.
K
kai
The Building regulations part M state sockets must be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above finished floor level, and have done so since 2000.
A few years down the line, people will ask "when was red and black cable last used?", when they open a switch box, and see the old cable colours.
A few years down the line, people will ask "when was red and black cable last used?", when they open a switch box, and see the old cable colours.
kai said:
On new build, Kai. There never has been any directive to enforce current regulations on existing properties - mind you, think of the dosh we could make if there was!!!
When I rewired my own gaff though, I did put the sockets at 450mm. I wish I hadn't; it looks sh*te!
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ban-all-sheds said:
{Breathless......Heavy Breathing}
Any more where that came from, Ban?
Nah, cos after that there was a war on and women's legs smelled of gravy.
After that, they invented tights. Yuck.
Still, yin and yang are in balance: women might wear tights now, but big parachute pants have given way to minute thongs... and they PREFER to wear the tiny pants! Brilliant!
After that, they invented tights. Yuck.
Still, yin and yang are in balance: women might wear tights now, but big parachute pants have given way to minute thongs... and they PREFER to wear the tiny pants! Brilliant!
Late fities early sixties I was training and worked on both Rubber Sheathed (TRS) and PVC. Remember one guy (no nationality no pack drill) who asked us to downrate some of the 15 A sockets as he did not want to waste electricity Wasn't the multi strand PVC stuff a pig to get to lie nicley on the surface?
Shorty afterwards I abandoned nasty dirty house wiring for motor vehicles; much cleaner until I was introduced to Seddon arctics .
NE way I now find either Rubber or PVC does it for me
Wasn't the multi strand PVC stuff a pig to get to lie nicley on the surface?Shorty afterwards I abandoned nasty dirty house wiring for motor vehicles; much cleaner until I was introduced to Seddon arctics
.NE way I now find either Rubber or PVC does it for me
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