Where is the 'It' which says that, since 'in the course of any business' is clearly very different from 'in the course of any business of his' - which is what was previoulsy quoted?
Kind Regards, John
old cable after a job
- Thread starter suffolkspark
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Kind Regards, John
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Paul_C
But only if it is waste, which doesn't seem to be clearly defined - In fact the definition of controlled waste in the legislation is rather circular by referring itself to "waste," be it of the household, commercial, or industrial variety.
So if you take a new reel of cable to a job, use all the cable, then toss the empty reel in your van intending to throw it away later, I think most people would probably agree that in that case the left over reel constitutes waste. But what if you are taking it home to use to keep odd offcuts of cable tidy? Or to paint it and turn into a coffee table for your garden gnomes? If it's going to be put to some other use, it's not waste, is it?
If you strip out a load of damaged accessories and take them away with the intent of throwing them away, then we'd probably all still consider those items to be waste. But what if you strip out a nice old polished wooden fuseboard and decide that you're going to add it to your collection of old electrical equipment, which you collect as a hobby? It might be something which is then being removed from the job site and which is redundant as far as that particular job is concerned, but it can't be called waste if it's not going to be thrown away or recycled, can it?
But I can certainly see room for some bureaucrat to try and argue otherwise in these cases, saying that it should be classed as waste because it's redundant as far as the job at hand was concerned.
Another issue to think about carefully about this legislation is that it states that a person must be registered under the applicable circumstances. Remember that in the legal sense "person" can mean either a natural person in the way that we tend to interpret the word in everyday use, or it can mean a company or other organization which is registered and takes on a legal personality. So that could have an effect on interpretation as to whether a real person transporting "controlled waste" is acting in his individual capacity or as an agent for the legal fictional person of a company.
Indeed.
Indeed not.
Indeed.
Indeed not.
Perhaps you could also try to see room for acting with common sense, recognising what the default, common-sense, every day definition of a load of old accessories, bits of used cable, empty reels and packaging lying in the back of an electrician's van would be, accepting if, and how often, he could convince people that it was not, beyond reasonable doubt, waste, and realising that however much it offends your sense of personal freedom, if you generate and transport waste during your business activities you need a ******* Waste Carrier Licence, and that's all there is to it.
So what?
If you're an employee, driving a vehicle belonging to your employer, with waste generated during the course of your employment carrying out your employer's business then your employer needs the licence.
If you're a sole trader then you, or the business you own, needs the licence.
Do you struggle to understand which entities need PLI cover, for example?
I agree with everything else you say, but I don't think the question of what represents 'common sense' is quite as straightforward as you suggest. We're really back to that issue of 'intent' (of the law) again.
As I said before, there's hardly a person who uses a vehicle in the course of their work whose vehicle does not ever contain items which could be regarded as 'waste (aka 'rubbish') generated in the course of their work' - even if only the occasional bit of packaging or scap paper. I find it hard to believe that the true intent was to require virtually everyone who ever has such 'work-generated rubbish' in their vehicle to have a Waste Carrier's Licence. Would youi call that 'common sense'? Indeed, except as a revenue-generating exercise, what on earth would be the point?
Kind Regards, John.
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To be able to stop, search, and impound vehicles used by fly tippers, and to be able to fine the operators.
The true intent is to leave no loopholes through which a fly-tipper could drive his vehicle.
Yes.
To help prevent fly-tipping.
Exactly. If the law were enforced with common sense on the basis of that assumed intent, then all would be fine.
I'm not going to be convinced that it makes sense for enforcement of this law to be extended to, say, the community nurse whose vehicle contains a couple of plastic bags in which dressings had been packed - but that would be the case with the approach you say you regard as 'common sense'.
Kind Regards, John.
Her employer would have the licence.
Sorted.
Sorted.
Not if (s)he was a self-employed 'private' nurse - but, anyway, you're quibbling. Even if the example I chose was potentially flawed, you know exactly the sort of situation I'm thinking of!
The thing I don't understand about the 'intent' is how it is meant to work. We are agreed that the primary intent/thinking behind the legislation is to deal with, hopefully deter, 'fly tipping' - yet, on the face of it, it would appear to be a blessing for significant-scale fly tippers. A Licence doesn't cost very much, and means that a fly tipper would be immune from any problems whenever they are found to be carrying waste. It's what they do with the waste, after they have finished 'carrying' it, that is the problem.
Kind Regards, John.
The she would require a licence:
"Subject to the following provisions of this section, it shall be an offence for any person who is not a registered carrier of controlled waste, in the course of any business of his or otherwise with a view to profit, to transport any controlled waste to or from any place in Great Britain.."
Actually, I don't. If she generates waste and she is self employed, she needs a licence. If she generates waste and she is an employee, her employer needs a licence.
I don't see the problem.
Licence = identity, address = paper trail for disposal of waste at commercial facilities.
Exactly my point. Daft!
I'm sure you really do. The problem is that it's plain daft!
Vehicle registration number = identity, address = paper trail for disposal of waste at commercial facilities.
Anyway, are you seriously suggesting that the self-employed nurse should or would take her two plastic bags to commercial waste disposal facilities?!!
Kind Regards, John.
I disagree.
I disagree.
Yes she should, because it is not her domestic waste, and therefore she is not paying, via her council tax, for it to be collected and disposed of by the council.
It's quite right that she should pay for it separately rather than defraud other tax payers.
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Paul_C
Yes, let's.
Scenario #1: An electrician goes to a residential property to do some work, installs whatever is necessary, and throws the cable clippings, burned out or damaged socket, and so on into a box, which he then loads in his van, takes home, and dumps into his own domestic bin at home. So according to the legislation, he's supposed to pay for a waste carrier's license.
Scenario #2: The electrician does exactly the same job, and ends up with exactly the same scrap in the same box, but he leaves it at the premises for the customer to dispose of. The customer duly dumps the whole lot into his own domestic bin. No waste being transported, so no carrier's license needed.
In both cases exactly the same waste ends up going into a domestic bin. So why is an extra fee needed in one case but not the other?
I was just pointing out that there could be cases in which the "person," in the legal sense, could be dependent upon the situation.
How does it do that? How does merely having this waste carrier's license prevent somebody from still dumping stuff anywhere and everywhere if he's so inclined?
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Paul_C
But it's all right to "defraud other tax payers" by leaving exactly the same waste at the houses visited for the patients to dispose of along with their own household waste?
Yes.
You clearly don't have any, because you don't want there to be legislation controlling the transport and disposal of waste.
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