why is the u.k 240v?

Although 110v is safer generally, in order to deal with the dangers of using higher current per watt in the U.S., they use ARC fault interrupters in domestic properties (although only in bedrooms usually) which detect arcing on the circuit and break the supply. This is used in addition to conventional MCBs and GFCIs (RCDs).
 
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There has to be a comprimise somewhere along the line, parts of the US use 110v/220v split phase system with the 220v used for larger appliances.

Not just parts of the U.S. 120/240V (as it is now specified) 1-phase 3-wire services have been the norm for residential supplies across the whole country for decades. You can still find a few 120V 2-wire services, but they are quite old now.


240vac @ 50Hz for most of the UK was fixed as we started on the national grid which was around 1960's with the national grid we transmitted power further than USA where they were powered at that time town by town.

The National Grid had a huge expansion in the 1960s, with 275 & 400kV long-distance transmission lines being built to increase capacity from the original 132kV systems, but the National Grid itself started much earlier, in the 1920s/30s.

And it's not true to say that American towns were powered individually. Vast transmission and distribution networks existed across the nation in the 1960s. They had developed along regional lines, due in part to the geography and demographics of the continent, and it's true that even today there is limited interconnection between different regional grids, but of course we're talking about a vast country compared to Britain, so a regional grid in North America can cover a far greater area than the entire U.K. National Grid. There are plenty of cross-border grids between the U.S. & Canada too.

There was a famous blackout in November 1965, when a tripped breaker and heavy demand led to an unfortunate cascade effect as loads were transferred to other lines, more breakers tripped, etc., until millions of homes were left without power across a wide area from Ontario to New Jersey and New England.


USA still have 220vac into each house with one leg upstairs and one leg down stairs and both to the cooker.

It would be rare to find a simple upstairs/downstairs split. The circuits are just shared between the two "hot" legs to distribute the load as evenly as possible. The two 20A small-appliance branch circuits which are specified for the kitchen & dining areas, for example, will often be on opposite legs of the service. It's also quite common to find a 3-wire circuit to a split-wired duplex receptacle where two medium to heavy loads are expected to be used. A duplex outlet under a worktop for a dishwasher and garbage disposal is a typical case.


New York still had DC supplies in 2000 mainly for lifts

2-phase 4-wire A.C. supplies were also still in use to some buildings until recently.


But in this country most industrial premises have same voltage as domestic but in USA 550vac and 660vac is common in industrial premises even here mines and quarries often use the higher voltages.

Most new commercial 3-phase services in the U.S. now are supplied as 120/208V or 277/480V Y systems. But there is a huge established base of delta services still in use, generally 240 or 480V.

Canada uses 120/208 the same as the U.S., but for heavier applications favors 347/600V systems instead of 277/480V. In both cases the Y system voltages were set so that phase-to-phase voltages matched the existing 480V and 600V delta systems.


But in USA they have still quite a few different systems running at the same time. The "Hot Wire" method of earthing delta secondary on transformers is something we never see here and I hope we never do.

I assume you're referring to the 4-wire delta arrangement, which is also known variously as high-leg delta, wild-leg delta, bastard-leg delta, red-leg delta, etc. It seems a little odd at first from a British perspective, but it was a neat method for allowing small 120V loads to be run alongside 240V delta without the need for extra on-site transformers or a separate 120/240V 1-ph 3-w service.


our street is supplied in banks of 4 or 5 houses.

theres 3 phase supply under the pavement. every 4 or 5 homes takes a single phase from this and its daisy chained to the 4/5 homes. Not directly through cutouts, but around the outsides of homes with spurs off. All done in concentric / seperate twin / combined twin oval cables.

terrace homes are often done in pairs, as the supply is under the stairs and two staircases will be side by side. Or the supply is next to the bay window in the lounge, as is next doors etc.

In rural and semi-rural areas you can find all sorts of different arrangements, as convenience often dictates the phasing, subject to maintaining an overall balance. In my road, for example, my house plus a couple on either side are on red phase, while several houses either side of those are mixed between red & blue. Then there's a whole row of homes on the opposite side of the road on yellow phase.

In some older parts of British towns you'll find that a side street has only two of the three phases along it. It's where the area was originally on a 3-wire D.C. system, and rather than replace every cable during the conversion to A.C., the electricity board simply tapped the existing feeders for each street into the new 3-phase distribution cable, so that one street is on red & yellow phases, the next on red & blue, the next on yellow & blue, etc.
 
But in USA they have still quite a few different systems running at the same time. The "Hot Wire" method of earthing delta secondary on transformers is something we never see here and I hope we never do.

I assume you're referring to the 4-wire delta arrangement, which is also known variously as high-leg delta, wild-leg delta, b*****d-leg delta, red-leg delta, etc. It seems a little odd at first from a British perspective, but it was a neat method for allowing small 120V loads to be run alongside 240V delta without the need for extra on-site transformers or a separate 120/240V 1-ph 3-w service.
Yes that is what I was referring to. Never worked on it but am aware it exists
In some older parts of British towns you'll find that a side street has only two of the three phases along it. It's where the area was originally on a 3-wire D.C. system, and rather than replace every cable during the conversion to A.C., the electricity board simply tapped the existing feeders for each street into the new 3-phase distribution cable, so that one street is on red & yellow phases, the next on red & blue, the next on yellow & blue, etc.

This was in old days when we put red to red, yellow to yellow, and blue to bits. But now we have Brown, Black and Grey an improvement on old Brown and two blacks cable but I still like red, Yellow and blue.

As to safety with 110 volt I am not convinced. In building sites in UK I have seen so many burnt cables it is quite apparent that there is a high fire risk.

To be fair it is caused in the main through the use of the yellow brick transformers which often have no out going fusing and rely on the incoming fuse or trip. If one considers a 12A trip on incoming 230v line then this will allow up to 50A to be supplied to a 55v leg and with 1.5mm² cable a couple of long extensions if trapped causing earth and one line wire to be shorted together will not draw over the 50A needed to open the circuit but will draw enough to melt the cable and/or cause fires.

Although while working on sites people can normally deal with fires safely this is not always the case. Out in the open I think the UK reduced low voltage system is generally good but when the transformers are supplying items used in doors and often in conjunction with the 230v supplies used when building work is not under way. The trip and fire hazard far out weigh any advantage because of reduced shock. Plus often reduced low voltage does not have any RCD protection.

If the reduced low voltage was used as required by the regulations then it would be safer but there seems to be a complete disregard of regulations once reduced low voltage is used.

Although I can also see there is a problem in following the regulations. We must ensure that no exposed part can exceed 50 volts to earth so with reduced low voltage there is only 5 volts to play with and to ensure enough current can flow to operate any safety device is a problem and I have done ELI tests on 110 volt equipment and most supplied from transformers under 5KVA fail.

Returning to the supply another problem is with transmission lines. We have all studied the transmission line rules when using HF but of course this also applies with 50 and 60Hz supplies as to spacing of cables to make them balanced feeders. And at x 1000's of miles you will get a null. I am told this did happen in South Africa and the supply had to be converted to DC. Although I have no details. I wonder what the impedance is for concentric cable and if it is taken into account. I know TV signals do not like 50 ohm rather than 75 ohm cable and I wonder what attenuation one gets on high voltage transmission lines?
Note:- Those would have not studied transmission lines in university or college will likely not understand and not really worth trying as it is very involved.
 
. I know TV signals do not like 50 ohm rather than 75 ohm cable
It's more like they don't like incorrectly matched cable. If the antenna and the receiver were correctly matched to 50 ohm and the coax was high enough quality for the freuqency range involved there is no reason you couldn't send a TV signal down it.

A general rule of thumb is you have to start seriously considering transmission line effects once your cable is longer than a quarter wavelength. Assuming a velocity of 10^8 m/s that would mean a cable length of 2000 km for 50Hz AC.

In other words irrelevent for MV and LV distribution and even for very big transmission grids each line can probablly be modelled reasonablly accurately as a few capacitors resistors and inductors.
 
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Yes that is what I was referring to. Never worked on it but am aware it exists

The main problem seems to be when someone who doesn't know what he's doing comes along and tries to add a 120V branch circuit on the B-phase, but just assuming that's it the same as A & C. The equipment usually doesn't like being fed with 208 volts!

his was in old days when we put red to red, yellow to yellow, and blue to bits.

Or as it was when many of those supplies were being converted, red, white, and blue.

The change to brown/black/gray was an extremely bad move in my opinion.


To be fair it is caused in the main through the use of the yellow brick transformers which often have no out going fusing and rely on the incoming fuse or trip.

Yet another symptom of modern cost cutting. :( Not like many of the older units which had double-pole fuses immediately accessible just inside the top cover. Of course, many of the units now are sealed internally with epoxy compound, so that wouldn't be possible!
 
Thank you plugwash I knew it was very long and it was abroad that the problem arose. Not going to get 2000Km here.
And yes using a balum or other matching unit one can use different impedance cable.
300 ohms ribbon is still the best for HF but her in doors will not let me drill the double glazed windows spoil sport that she is!

Paul_C yes I do remember when we had fuses inside the yellow brick but as you say they are cheap. I wanted a 1 to 1 for my son 230 in and 230 out and I was quoted three times the price of the yellow brick. In fact I can buy a step down and step up for less than an Isolation transformer.

At the moment he is taking a chance but as soon as funds allow he wants to disconnect the earth wire and use an isolation transformer instead 3KVA is ample as only on a 16A supply.

He has looked at the alternative of putting diodes in the earth cable but he like me does not trust diodes and the results of both open and closed circuit could spell danger or very short life of the sacrificial anodes.
 
He has looked at the alternative of putting diodes in the earth cable but he like me does not trust diodes and the results of both open and closed circuit could spell danger or very short life of the sacrificial anodes.

You've lost me. :confused: What is the aim here, and for feeding what sort of equipment?
 
Going back to original question it is a compromise between low losses in the cables (higher voltage better) and being able to switch it easily (lower better, and definitely not DC)

If you have ever seen how big an arc 1000v DC can draw if you switch it off "on load" you understand why we have AC for so long.

And switching higher voltage AC is also not easy - they have 25kv on the electric main line trains (Everwhere except south of London, London Underground, and trams) and on the train it can only be switched in a vacuum to prevent the arc maintaining current across the opening contacts. That is what the ceramic thing beside the pantograph on the roof of the train is. The transmission companies use very large contact gaps to break arcs formed when switching.

So we have 240v AC because it has relatively low losses and can be switched relatively easily.
 
being able to switch it easily (lower better, and definitely not DC)

If you have ever seen how big an arc 1000v DC can draw if you switch it off "on load" you understand why we have AC for so long.

Although it's become accepted convention in the U.K. to use switched sockets in most locations, the I.E.E. Regs./BS7671 have never actually required them on A.C. systems. However, back when D.C. supplies were still used in some areas, the Regs. did state that on such systems all socket outlets must be controlled by an integral or adjacent switch. It was for precisely this reason - Withdrawing a plug under load on a D.C. system could result in considerable arcing.

Switches used with D.C. were also designed to be quick make & break, like the old tumbler light switches where it's impossible to open the contacts gradually by moving the operating handle slowly. You can move the dolly as slowly as you like, but nothing happens until the spring reaches its critical point at which the mechanism "tumbles" and snaps the contacts open quickly in order to extinguish the arc as quickly as possible.

With A.C. the arc is more readily extinguished as the current drops to zero at the end of each half-cycle of current, so quick-break switches aren't needed. That's why the old tumbler switches are suitable for A.C. or D.C. but the simpler types of switch where it's possible to open the contacts slowly are marked for A.C. only.

But arcing caused by switching aside, the overwhelming reason that A.C. became the norm for power distribution is the ease with which the voltage level can be stepped up and down with transformers. Changing D.C. voltage levels is much more difficult and expensive - to the point that it's just not feasible on a large scale. As has been noted already, there are conflicting needs to use high voltages for sending power over long distances efficiently and much lower voltages which can be handled safely in the home.

With A.C. we use transformers to send power over long distances at very high voltages, only stepping down to 120/240/415V etc. near the point of utilization. With D.C. that's just not possible, so the early D.C. distribution systems built in some cities had a very restricted service area - Similar to the maximum distribution area of one transformer with a modern A.C. system. Trying to send lower voltages over longer distances without excessive losses would soon result in cable sizes becoming so large as to be totally impractical.
 
He has looked at the alternative of putting diodes in the earth cable but he like me does not trust diodes and the results of both open and closed circuit could spell danger or very short life of the sacrificial anodes.

You've lost me. :confused: What is the aim here, and for feeding what sort of equipment?
The mention of sacrifican anodes makes me suspect this is about a boat supply. IIRC connecting mains earth to the metalwork of a boat can be problematic because currents can flow between the water and mains earth though the boat and cause corrosion problems.
 
He has looked at the alternative of putting diodes in the earth cable but he like me does not trust diodes and the results of both open and closed circuit could spell danger or very short life of the sacrificial anodes.

You've lost me. :confused: What is the aim here, and for feeding what sort of equipment?
The mention of sacrifican anodes makes me suspect this is about a boat supply. IIRC connecting mains earth to the metalwork of a boat can be problematic because currents can flow between the water and mains earth though the boat and cause corrosion problems.
You are spot on. At the marina he uses now he is the Electrician so all steel earth rods so no problem but with copper coated rods or when there is a mixture of Ali and Steel hulls at the marina it is a problem. Can't remember the series of hand but two diodes (Well at least 4 as set in both directions) with 2.4 thresh hold voltage will cure the problem.

As to DC and AC question I have already given link to the "War of Currents" but since that time technology has moved on. We now with switch mode power supplies have some Lap Top power supplies able to take any voltage between 100 and 250 volt AC or DC to supply computer without any external switching.

Using the same technology we can also convert 50Hz to 60Hz or vice versa and many of the original reasons for selecting 110 ,220 or 240 volt are no longer valid. And like driving on left or right it is not likely to change.

I know in Llwyngwryl they had 110 volt DC when I was young and getting a sewing machine or a water pump to run on that voltage was not easy. And the overhead wires were not as sturdy as the modern types and they often had power cuts. Seemed strange even though the power station was next to river it was Diesel I wonder if it was water to begin with?

Although we can now see advantages with both systems and we have given both I wonder if it was anything so thoughtful or simply customer lead demanding a system for which appliances were available? After all we have seen with VCR's the best was V2000 then Betamax and final VHS yet it was the VHS which was the system which lasted until the DVD took over. And this was all to do with machine costs and Pre-recorder Video availability.

I remember a completely different battle of voltages. I worked in Algeria for a Dutch company and we had camps spotted along the route of a pipe line and you could tell if an English or Dutch Electrician was at each camp by measuring the voltage.

The frequency was also a problem where generators were synced together as the frequency would tend to clime every time you added a generator and in some places we had a quartz and frequency driven clock so we could adjust frequency to ensure all the alarm clocks worked at the right time.
 
.... Seemed strange even though the power station was next to river it was Diesel I wonder if it was water to begin with?...
might have been coal-powered with coal brought by ship or barge. Old power station in Ipswich, Russell Road was like that.
 
.... Seemed strange even though the power station was next to river it was Diesel I wonder if it was water to begin with?...
might have been coal-powered with coal brought by ship or barge. Old power station in Ipswich, Russell Road was like that.
The river entered the sea vie a shingle bank i.e. no access even for a paper boat. So no.
 
You are spot on. At the marina he uses now he is the Electrician so all steel earth rods so no problem but with copper coated rods or when there is a mixture of Ali and Steel hulls at the marina it is a problem. Can't remember the series of hand but two diodes (Well at least 4 as set in both directions) with 2.4 thresh hold voltage will cure the problem.

Ah, now I see what he's trying to achieve. Any silicon diode has a forward voltage drop of about 0.6V when conducting, so choice wouldn't be critical, so long as suitably rated for voltage and current. If the PIV rating of each individual diode is below the peak of the supply voltage it's normal to wire a chain of high-value resistances (several megohms) across the diodes to equalize reverse bias voltages.

You're going to end up with a grounding system which is effectively high impedance to the hull ground unless and until a fault current flows though, which might upset some electronics, so a separate "proper" earth to the equipment ahead of the diodes might be needed.


Using the same technology we can also convert 50Hz to 60Hz or vice versa and many of the original reasons for selecting 110 ,220 or 240 volt are no longer valid. And like driving on left or right it is not likely to change

Some parts of Continental Europe changed systems gradually in the post-war years, going from older 127/220V 3-phase distribution systems to 220/380V. These days there is such a huge established base of equipment, even in the average home, that countries on 110-120V base voltage would need to adopt a very gradual changeover program, and probably end up with dual-voltage outlets in homes for many years after. It would be a massive change.
 

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