WORCESTER 240 CENTRAL HEATING DROPPING OUT AND RE IGNITING.

[jockskinner]

Hi folks,
Just to keep youse all up to date with the worcester 240 saga.
Heating has not came on again. Usually when you press the on switch, the fan comes on and there is a momentary audible click then the gas ignites.
Tonight switch to on pumps starts to run...no click....no gas ignite. Tried resetting numerous times but its just the same....no click?
Water pressure is getting low again. have checked all visible rads,pipes etc for any obvious leak but cannot see anything. Pipework and radiators all in good condition.
John.

 

[jockskinner]

Bad News Folks,

Heating switched on but ran for about 5 minutes and dropped out again.
No amount of coaxing has made it restart. I have noticed that the green demand light fades to almost nothing when the gas does not fire up.
Its very cold up here in Scotland at night.
Roll on the service engineer and his sticky part.
John.

 

[jockskinner]

Hi folks,
Heating has still not been fixed. Engineer came out and youve guessed it....Switched on ok . He said he could fix anything if it is working ok when he visits. I tried to explain to him that it is an intermittent fault and told him exactly what happens when it fails but he wasnt much interested.
It wouldnt start the next day.
Switch on heating.
Green demand lights up.
Pump starts to run.
Boiler makes a series of sparking noises.
Burner ignites.
Runs for a couple of seconds then goes out.
Fan continues to run.
Boiler starts making sparking noises again.
Burner ignited again.
Runs for another short time and goes out again.
Continues doing this a few times then stays lit.
Pressure comes up after a couple of minutes and everything seems fine.
Sometimes when it is switched on neither the pump runs or the sparking happens.
Engineer was suppose to arrive first thing today but did not show...still trying to contact them.
He mentioned the gas valve or the solenoid valve the last time I spoke to him.
At my wits end with this fault....I have a youngster in the house and It gets pretty cold in Scotland at this time of the year. I never know if it is going to switch on when I need it. It seems a bit of a waste of time paying to have it routinely serviced and a maintainance contract on it when nobody seems to be able to get to the bottom of this fault.
HELP NEEDED.

 

[bengasman]

It is actually the other way around; if it had been maintained properly over the past decade, you wouldn't have this problem.

 

[jockskinner]

Hi again,
Does anybody read these posts properly. The system has been maintained since it was installed quite a few years ago. I dont quite understand what bengasmans problem is. It has been properly maintained and I do have this problem so maybe instead of passing sarky remarks he might give us lesser mortals the benifit of his vast experience jotted down on the back of a stamp.

 

[bengasman]

Not meant to be sarky. Untold thousands think they have a maintenance contract and believe the boiler is serviced every year, but what they have is a breakdown contract and annual check for the most elementary safety.

 

[jockskinner]

Hi again,

Firstly let me sorry to bengasman as he is correct. I thought it was a maintainance contract but what it actually is is what he says....a breakdown contract....I stand corrected and am sorry.
What is happening now is the plumbing company who are employed by Homeserve are now refusing to come out as they say that when they came out before...the ch was working so now I am in a catch 22.
They will not come out unless unless it has totally broken down. In the meantime I am left with a central heating system that works sometimes and not others. Homeserve say that if I want I can get it fixed privately but I will have to pay for all parts and labour incurred. Another option is to replace the boiler but with modern regulations, I would have to resite it somewhere else in the house and I just dont have the finances to do this. I am a disabled 60 year old who cannot work due to heart disease.
I did manage to get a service and maintainace manual direct from Worcester Bosch which may help me to isolate this fault.
I still would be glad of any advice on the matter.
Best regards,
John.

 

[boabcelt]

Has anybody checked the condition and/or positioning of the spark electrode and flame sensor? This is a common problem on 240s.

 

[jockskinner]

Hi there boabcelt,

Its good to hear from another Fifer with some sort of idea what may be wrong.

The breakdown engineers will not look at it because when they came out the last time, the fault had cleared and he said that he couldnt fix it if it was working when he called. He never checked anything,just filled in his sheet and left. It failed again for about an hour the following morning.

I dont think its the spark electrode because although I can hear it sparking like crazy...The burner ignites but goes out again after a few seconds,this repeats for up to an hour then it just seems to clear itself. I could have a look at the flame sensor, whereever it is. I managed to get a installation and service manual directly from Worcester Bosch so I shall look that up.
If you think of anything else, please get in touch.
Thanks again.
John.

 

[bengasman]

...
What is happening now is the plumbing company who are employed by Homeserve are now refusing to come out as they say that when they came out before......

Simple. Call them out again, their is usually no limit on the amount of call outs, and you did tell them it was an intermittent fault; not your fault they sent a numpty that didn't know how to check things.

If they refuse because it was working, ask for the name, surname and first name. Then you first tell them that you did inform them that it was an intermittent fault.
If they still refuse, you say this: "I was advised to request you put your refusal in writing." Verbatim, no more no less.
She will probably ask you why; tell her it doesn't matter why, just put your refusal in writing please. Do not engage in why or how, just politely insist they write to you to explain why they refuse.

 

[jockskinner]

Hi again bengasman,
Good to hear from you again.
I have a limit of two callouts per year unfortunately but that is the cover I was offered when I was with npower.
They have refused to come out unless the boiler totally breaks down. I am a reasonable person and tried to speak to this company on Wednesday morning to ask why no one bothered to phone or explain why the engineer did not appear for the Tuesday appointment. As soon as I said my name...the boss hung up. I phoned again and was transferred to their answer machine. I then phoned Homeserve and they phoned Thomas Grahams and he told Homeserve that when an engineer last visited ...the system was working and would not touch a system even though it had an intermittent fault. Homeserve are also taking the same line so I seem to be caught betreen a rock and a hard place.
I am now going to get the covers off and have a loofk for anything obvious.
boadcelt has advised me that the spark electrode and flame sensor are common fault so I will try and have a look in that area although the boiler sparks almost continually now and the boiler does light frequently but does not stay lit after a few seconds. I cannot seem to be able to find the flame sensor in the drawings and it only mentions it once in the manual as part of the automatic startup sequence. Have you any idea where it is.
Anyway...back to your posting
Why do I need this information about the engineer?
Jock.

 

[jockskinner]

Well no luck,
Ive had the control panel down hoping to find a bad connection or something like that....evrything looks fine. I have tried to get the burner cover off but I can only see 4 screws there should be another two at the top but I dont see them. I have to assume now that it is component failure somewhere in the ch side of the boiler.
When I switched the electrics on again after refitting the control panel and then switched the heating on......only the pumps appeared to be running. It was about 10 seconds before the first of the sparking sounds could be heard. and the gas lit on about the 4th click.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt the pilot light at the front ignite the burner and if so ....what is the clicking/sparking sound I can hear. Is it the solenoid valve chattering?

Their might be light at the end of the tunnel.......Worcester Bosch have returned my plea for help. They have said the same as bengasman that an engineer can infact check for faults even if the system is working when they arrive and the engineer who came out was wrong. They have also said if you cannot get it fixed....they would consider sending out one of there own engineers for a fixed price.
Jock.

 

[jockskinner]

Hopefully good news...

The the Worcester Bosch engineer are coming tomorrow to hopefully repair the boiler. I am glad that this may be an end to this saga.
I shall let youse know tomorrow if it has worked out ok.
Jock.

 

[jockskinner]

Bad news folks,

After the carryon with the service company I decided I had to get this problem fixed before the winter set in. I contacted Worcester Bosch direct and arranged an all inclusive deal for £210 that would cover their engineer visiting, parts and vat. Small price to pay for peace of mind.

Unfortunately he walked took on look in the boiler cupboard and condemned the boiler. The open flue had been fitted incorrectly by the installers(should have had a straight 600 mm out the top of the boiler. There was also a couple of other smaller items like a vent in the hall floor and repair to a small part of the back was (should be sealed?)
He spent the next twenty or so minutes typing in his laptop and answering his phone.
He removed the boiler cover just before he left to shut of the gas and switch of the electric to the system. Seemingly Worcester Bosch are determined to keep all of my money even though he never even looked in the boiler or used any part.
So now I have no hot water or central heating. Have paid Worcester Bosch £210 for the priveledge of condemning my boiler. I am over 60 years old and have a serious heart problem and am registered disable and my grandson who is 3 years old who lived with us will have no hot water or heating.
Obviously the original fault is still on the boiler and was very apparent when the Worcester Bosch was there but he wasnt interested.
But now I am getting angry......
Why has the service company and the insurance company taken about £800 from me to basically service a boiler that should have been condemned on their first visit.
I can feel a visit to trading standards and CAB coming on rapidly.
It was cold in Scotland last night.

John.

 

[bengasman]

The WB guys that I have met, were all very good, albeit some of them a bit pedantic. 10 to 1 that they spotted the problem correctly, and the insurance cowboys failed.
As a disabled pensioner, you should be able to get yourself a free lawyer, and let them take on the insurance company as they clearly failed in their duty of care.