YALE 6400 PIR question

[Pogocat]

Hi all

Know that not many people are happy with the YALE alarm system but I have a question.

We have had one now for about 6 months and no problem until Saturday. The PIR in the kitchen went off when we were out. Luckily we could disable the alarm via my mobile.

I am wondering whether heat could have triggered the PIR as it was rather warm in the house on Saturday when we left (1300 it was about 25 deg C in the kitchen). The PIR is pointed towards a patio door to the concervatory and the cat could only get into the conservatory.

Should I change the location of the PIR or might there be something else that can be the cause like heat ?

Cheers

 

[joe-90]

They don't like to look at big windows etc. Change the position.

 

[whistle]

Hi all

Know that not many people are happy with the YALE alarm system but I have a question.

We have had one now for about 6 months and no problem until Saturday. The PIR in the kitchen went off when we were out. Luckily we could disable the alarm via my mobile.

I am wondering whether heat could have triggered the PIR as it was rather warm in the house on Saturday when we left (1300 it was about 25 deg C in the kitchen). The PIR is pointed towards a patio door to the concervatory and the cat could only get into the conservatory.

Should I change the location of the PIR or might there be something else that can be the cause like heat ?

Cheers

whats the distance from the detector to the patio door? is this the first activation? have you been doing any alterations in the house recently? when did you last change any batteries? .....









just a couple of the questions anyone should be asking before giving advice.

 

[ahdsh]

I would not expect a battery to be a cause after only six months.

If the pir is pointing towards your conservatory through your patio door then it is unlikely that the pir would have been set off by an increase in temperature within the conservatory. Infra red light does not penetrate glass very well.
However a source of bright light reflecting through the glass could activate the sensor.
Is it possible that sunlight could have reflected off a glass table top or window within the conservatory. A pir sensor should never be positioned where bright sunlight can directly hit the sensor wether direct or reflected sunlight. Does your window face west? A low sun directly through a window can also be a problem.
I had a client who had a telephone call half way up a chair lift in France from his 6400 alarm. The activation was caused because he had temporaily taken down a pir sensor to have a shower extended. He had told me he was going to move the partition wall so when I installed the system I fitted the bedroom sensor temporarily using high strength exterior double sided pads (not the Scotch tape ones supplied with YALE which can fail as they absorb moisture and this was near a bathroom). He removed the sensor when he expanded the shower room but put the pir on a bedside table where it was in direct line of the morning sun coming through a window. On discovering how the problem was caused he was actually more impressed with the alarm than before and of course it proved the system works.
Are there any windows that lead from the conservatory into the kitchen and were these open? Or any vents. Hot air from the conservatory leaking into the kitchen could cause an activation.
PIRs work by calibrating against the general background heat image and then they trigger when detecting areas of heat image generally around 8deg centrigrade higher than the calibrated temperature. For this reason PIR sensors are actually more sensitive in the winter as a human body has a higher differential to background heat in the winter.
If you left a window open elswhere in the house this would allow hot air to circulate around the home.
If the air in the kitchen was around say 20 degrees compared to an outside temp of 25degrees and the conservatory warmed up to 40 degrees then we have a potential heat signature possible of activating a pir. If a window open elsewhere in the home allowed warm air from the conservatory to leak into the kitchen then warm air could then cause a convection movement imitating a moving object.
You could reposition your sensor to reduce this possibility by placing the sensor rather than looking towards the conservatory looking into the kitchen from a corner adjacent to the patio doors. Preferably not above your back door but on the opposite side. Also when leaving your home ensure all windows are shut even if it is hot weather to prevent convection currents or warm air circulating and triggering your pir sensors.

Oh and don't apologise for fitting yale. Your alarm triggered as designed the systems themselves are very reliable and robust despite what you may hear on here or elsewhere. The problem with Yale is predominately that they are fitted by inexperienced people which causes the problems.
(no disrespect) I have installed hundreds and I sleep soundly every night despite being responsible through a 12 month warranty on all parts and labour for any alarm malfunctions.

 

[youtekkinthepish]

I had a client who had a telephone call half way up a chair lift in France from his 6400 alarm. The activation was caused because he had temporaily taken down a pir sensor to have a shower extended.

What an amazing coincidence.
This not look familiar?

I had a customer who wanted his whole house alarmed and his garage covering too as he was worried about someone stealing his mountain bikes. I fitted a telecommunicating alarm.
He was half way up a ski slope in the French Alps in a chairlift when he received a call on his mobile from his alarm telling him he was being burgled.
He called his next door neighbour who went round to find the gardener had gone into the garage to fasten the hose pipe on and had set the alarm off.

 

[bob-the-builder]

Oh and don't apologise for fitting yale.

When you first joined up and started singing the praises of Yale wireless alarms I thought, why is this poor guy getting picked on by the other members on here for stating his own opinions, when we are all supposed to be on the same team.

However, there have been several posts recently (since you joined) where people hadn't even said hello or joined in on the other DIY topics. Their first post was something Yale related and then surprise surprise along comes Fastalarms to the rescue with some response far larger and infinitely more boring than some novels.

Can a mod trace the IP address of Fastalarms and a few of these "new users" to see if they correspond?

As this is getting beyond a joke, it's too much of a coincidence for this to happen as often as it has been. Are you getting paid commission from Yale to advertise their products on here or something Fastalarms?

 

[Europlex]

Seen his web site?

I wonder if ADT have?

http://www.fastalarms.co.uk/

 

[djrock]

Seen his web site?

I wonder if ADT have?

http://www.fastalarms.co.uk/[/QUOTE]
I seen that page on ADT vs Yale, it makes yale systems sound much better than ADT systems.

 

[youtekkinthepish]

Seen his web site?

I wonder if ADT have?

http://www.fastalarms.co.uk/[/QUOTE]
Hence my comment previously regarding him being brave or whether his website has been hacked (polite phrase for 'lost the plot')

 

[whistle]

woops - i thought fastalarms was another spoof member like joe90 ....is he saying he`s actually getting paid for it.

 

[whistle]

I would not expect a battery to be a cause after only six months.

If the pir is pointing towards your conservatory through your patio door then it is unlikely that the pir would have been set off by an increase in temperature within the conservatory. Infra red light does not penetrate glass very well.
However a source of bright light reflecting through the glass could activate the sensor.
Is it possible that sunlight could have reflected off a glass table top or window within the conservatory. A pir sensor should never be positioned where bright sunlight can directly hit the sensor wether direct or reflected sunlight. Does your window face west? A low sun directly through a window can also be a problem.
I had a client who had a telephone call half way up a chair lift in France from his 6400 alarm. The activation was caused because he had temporaily taken down a pir sensor to have a shower extended. He had told me he was going to move the partition wall so when I installed the system I fitted the bedroom sensor temporarily using high strength exterior double sided pads (not the Scotch tape ones supplied with YALE which can fail as they absorb moisture and this was near a bathroom). He removed the sensor when he expanded the shower room but put the pir on a bedside table where it was in direct line of the morning sun coming through a window. On discovering how the problem was caused he was actually more impressed with the alarm than before and of course it proved the system works.
Are there any windows that lead from the conservatory into the kitchen and were these open? Or any vents. Hot air from the conservatory leaking into the kitchen could cause an activation.
PIRs work by calibrating against the general background heat image and then they trigger when detecting areas of heat image generally around 8deg centrigrade higher than the calibrated temperature. For this reason PIR sensors are actually more sensitive in the winter as a human body has a higher differential to background heat in the winter.
If you left a window open elswhere in the house this would allow hot air to circulate around the home.
If the air in the kitchen was around say 20 degrees compared to an outside temp of 25degrees and the conservatory warmed up to 40 degrees then we have a potential heat signature possible of activating a pir. If a window open elsewhere in the home allowed warm air from the conservatory to leak into the kitchen then warm air could then cause a convection movement imitating a moving object.
You could reposition your sensor to reduce this possibility by placing the sensor rather than looking towards the conservatory looking into the kitchen from a corner adjacent to the patio doors. Preferably not above your back door but on the opposite side. Also when leaving your home ensure all windows are shut even if it is hot weather to prevent convection currents or warm air circulating and triggering your pir sensors.

Oh and don't apologise for fitting yale. Your alarm triggered as designed the systems themselves are very reliable and robust despite what you may hear on here or elsewhere. The problem with Yale is predominately that they are fitted by inexperienced people which causes the problems.
(no disrespect) I have installed hundreds and I sleep soundly every night despite being responsible through a 12 month warranty on all parts and labour for any alarm malfunctions.

guy who knows nothing - you cant use free standing pir`s with "proper kit"



still as you say " no difference between graded and your ungraded tat now" - is there?

 

[RF Lighting]

Seen his web site?

I wonder if ADT have?

http://www.fastalarms.co.uk/[/QUOTE]

Some fantastic scaremongering on that site too

 

[ahdsh]

I had a client who had a telephone call half way up a chair lift in France from his 6400 alarm. The activation was caused because he had temporaily taken down a pir sensor to have a shower extended.

What an amazing coincidence.
This not look familiar?

I had a customer who wanted his whole house alarmed and his garage covering too as he was worried about someone stealing his mountain bikes. I fitted a telecommunicating alarm.
He was half way up a ski slope in the French Alps in a chairlift when he received a call on his mobile from his alarm telling him he was being burgled.
He called his next door neighbour who went round to find the gardener had gone into the garage to fasten the hose pipe on and had set the alarm off.

You know you are right that client had two false alarms while on holiday alarms but then of course you knew that didn't you?

 

[whistle]

I had a client who had a telephone call half way up a chair lift in France from his 6400 alarm. The activation was caused because he had temporaily taken down a pir sensor to have a shower extended.

What an amazing coincidence.
This not look familiar?

I had a customer who wanted his whole house alarmed and his garage covering too as he was worried about someone stealing his mountain bikes. I fitted a telecommunicating alarm.
He was half way up a ski slope in the French Alps in a chairlift when he received a call on his mobile from his alarm telling him he was being burgled.
He called his next door neighbour who went round to find the gardener had gone into the garage to fasten the hose pipe on and had set the alarm off.

You know you are right that client had two false alarms while on holiday alarms but then of course you knew that didn't you?

yo man who knows nothing - dont ignore the question


"can you name any G3 radio equipment"? and "why cant you free stand a graded radio device"?










come on, dont be shy at showing your ignorance

 

[ahdsh]

guy who knows nothing - you cant use free standing pir`s with "proper kit"



still as you say " no difference between graded and your ungraded tat now" - is there?

Guy who thinks he knows everything - I never instructed the client to use the sensor freestanding. I told him to ring me up and I would tell him how to remove it from the system when he wanted to take it off the wall but he didn't he took it on himself to take it down without disabling it.

You know between the lot of you so called professionals there is jack all actual advice given to the OP unlike my post. This is DIY help after all and the OP had a DIY question.

You know since you guys don't actually have any experience of installing Yales you don't actually have anything to add do you. Other than to pick on me like a load of old washerwomen.

I hope the OP found my advice useful but similarly is glad that he didn't let a shower like you lot work in his house.

As for being brave?

I can see every IP that visits my site and shortly after posting my ADT comparison every single page of my website was looked at with a fine toothcomb from a London ISP.
A solicitors , probably.
The truth is everything I put on that comparison is true. The source for all the information came from ADT's own terms and conditions and you have to get right down to the last page before you find out there is a premium rate number in use. Nothing I have put on that page bends the truth in any shape or form.
You may remember the recent company posted on here had an adjudication against then from the office of fair trading and one of the things they were concerned about was that they guaranteed a police response when in fact that can never be guaranteed.

There are two aspects of selling alarms.
My aspect of trying to cover the bases for the customer with the limited funds he has available . .
.. and some sales , sorry security firms who sell security by misleading people to think that only their systems will work and their systems will have the police charging up the path within seconds.

.. I think my security advice in good faith (not scraemongering) pales into significance with the 'advice' a client will get from a company who gains to benefit from a 3 yr contract worth over a grand.