Widow Maker

[Taylortwocities]

I had a call-out to an old cottage today. Strange fault on socket circuit is still under investigation - but what did I see just on the shelf next to the fuseboard??

View media item 41981

I can imagine what it had been used for - can you?

But to leave it laying around is unforgiveable. I have confiscated it.

PS That cable is only 1.0mm²

 

[heathelect]

I had a call-out to an old cottage today. Strange fault on socket circuit is still under investigation - but what did I see just on the shelf next to the fuseboard??

View media item 41981

I can imagine what it had been used for - can you?

But to leave it laying around is unforgiveable. I have confiscated it.

PS That cable is only 1.0mm²

Switch off the mains, plug one end into a socket, the other into a portable generator, seen it done by a mate off mine, told him about the dangers but he still does it during a powercut

 

[westie101]

Switch off the mains, plug one end into a socket, the other into a portable generator, seen it done by a mate off mine, told him about the dangers but he still does it during a powercut

1987 after the "hurricane" in souther England a linesman was killed by a set-up like that.
The house owner had omitted to switch the CU off linesman went to repair the overhead service........................................

 

[Taylortwocities]

Darn it, you got it in one.

Some years ago (apparently) a tree fell down and knocked out the power for some days.

They had a small portable genny running outside, an extension lead and this connected the extension lead to one of the socket outlets (well, let's call it a socket inlet).

With the socket circuit fuse in place that got power to the fuseboard and the genny powered some lights and the fridge for a day or three.

Blimey

 

[JohnW2]

1987 after the "hurricane" in souther England a linesman was killed by a set-up like that. The house owner had omitted to switch the CU off linesman went to repair the overhead service........................................

In that regard, I've often wondered how 'totally foolproof' all the PV etc. systems are - i.e. how certain one can be that they will never try to feed power into a seemingly 'dead' network.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Alarm]

Seen that a few times.
Empty properties squatted and they powered the house up with a small genny.

 

[westie101]

In that regard, I've often wondered how 'totally foolproof' all the PV etc. systems are - i.e. how certain one can be that they will never try to feed power into a seemingly 'dead' network.

Mainly as a result of the death the National Safety Rules were changed and we deal with situations rather differently.
Access to the cut-out must be obtained to remove it (also so we don't reconnect with crossed polarity) often we will apple LV line earths as well which effectively shorts all the phases to neutral and an earth rod. I doubt any backfeeding equipment would survive that!

 

[JohnW2]

Mainly as a result of the death the National Safety Rules were changed and we deal with situations rather differently. Access to the cut-out must be obtained to remove it ...

Do you mean the cutouts in consumer's properties? There presumably could be quite a lot of premises fed from a particular overhead cable?

....often we will apple LV line earths as well which effectively shorts all the phases to neutral and an earth rod. I doubt any backfeeding equipment would survive that!

True!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ericmark]

Walk around any shopping area in Turkey and you will see loads of leads with two German CEE 7/4 plugs fitted and generators in the front of the shop ready for the frequent power cuts.

I am told there very few accidents I would assume because it is normal so everyone is taught from a young age what the dangers are? The Turkish is seems are taught self preservation rather than to expect it to be safe or it would not be allowed.

Since our BS 1363 plugs have fuses there are in some ways safer however it is easier to by-pass the 13A fuse than the 16A MCB and once one starts to break the rules where does it stop?

What I see as the real problem with many quick fixes is when it is part copied by others. Some one who is fully aware of the dangers does some act which is then copied by some one else who only copies the visible bit and does not take the precautions used by the originator.

In this case the main point is the main incoming power needs to be isolated and the lead needs to be connected in the correct order.

The post has shown all who read what can be done but not how to do it without getting a shock. I would have preferred to have never seen the post but now it is here one needs to explain how plugging into the generator is the last action when connecting and first when disconnecting.

Personally I would hope that the moderators would remove the whole post!

The problem with using a generator for multiple items is the lack of the earth system. Very seldom are earth rods used and with any TN supply when there is a loss of power then often you also lose the earth.

The other problem with generators is many are split phase rather than single phase although not an even split. 57 - 0 - 173 is common with 110/230 volt types which means there is no fuse on the 57 volt leg unless built into the generator.

As a result a 5kVA generator can even with the fuse in the plug give out very high currents so instead of the mere 22A expected it can deliver 88A into the 57V line without stalling the engine.

It does not take much to realise 88A into a 1.5mm cable does not go and fire is a very real danger.

So will the administrators please remove this whole thread including my replay as to half follow this method without knowing what the real dangers are could result in loss of life.

 

[Lectrician]

I spotted one last year...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The house owner had omitted to switch the CU off linesman went to repair the overhead service........................................

Was he prosecuted for manslaughter?

 

[Space cat]

The last time I saw a mains lead with a plug on each end was nearly forty years ago in a student flat. One end was plugged into a 3-way adapter which was lying on the floor with some cardboard taped over its plug pins.

 

[westie101]

Do you mean the cutouts in consumer's properties? There presumably could be quite a lot of premises fed from a particular overhead cable?

Multiple properties would be dealt with using LV earths as detailed above.
Given that the largest generator used is often 5kVA I doubt it would be capable of backfeeding into other properties

 

[plugwash]

Do you mean the cutouts in consumer's properties? There presumably could be quite a lot of premises fed from a particular overhead cable?

Multiple properties would be dealt with using LV earths as detailed above.
Given that the largest generator used is often 5kVA I doubt it would be capable of backfeeding into other properties

Depends, I'd think the background load in most houses is probablly well under 500W so unless one of the properties has some high load items turned on i'd think one portable generator could potentially backfeed quite a few

 

[Aragorn84]

I'm amazed the genny would keep running when simply connected to the grid as has been suggested might happen.

Surely the majority of households in the blackout area will have load connected to the supply, and your attempt to backfeed your individual property without isolating the supply would result in the genny seeing a huge load and simply stalling out or blowing a fuse?

Can anyone explain why that wouldnt be the case?