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Megaman Lamps

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surreysparks

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:22 pm Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me if the megaman 11w compact reflector lamp meets Part L1 of the building regs ?
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Taylortwocities

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:59 pm Reply with quote

This indicates it meets Building Regs Part L1
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=239826

But it depends on your application and requirement.

They will provide a low energy illumination that meets L1 in terms of < 40 lumens per circuit-watt

BUT

it does not comply with para 44 of Part L1.

This requires the FITTING to provide the control circuitry. The Megaman lamp has the control circuitry within the LAMP itself.
This means there is nothing to stop someone subsequently removing the low energy (Megaman) lamp and replacing it with a regular tungsten or halogen lamp.

So, if you were hoping to get around building control's insistence on 25% low energy requirement it won't wash. You would need to change at least 25% of the fittings for low energy specific fittings. SGU10s, for example.
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surreysparks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:37 am Reply with quote

Thanks Taylor for your quick response. Having spoken to Megaman, it appears the 11w only gives out 20 lumens per circuit watt which does not meet the required 40 lumens. Theses lamps are advertised all over the net as Part L1 compliant which is a real bummer as it looks as if I will have to remove 52 of them in a new build and find a replacment !!
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DetlefSchmitz

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:02 pm Reply with quote

Odd... They are sold as producing 570 lumens, so at 11 W that makes 51.8 lumens/Watt.
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ban-all-sheds

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:40 pm Reply with quote

Taylortwocities wrote:
it does not comply with para 44 of Part L1.

That's odd - when I look at Part L1, I see this:

PART L CONSERVATION OF FUEL AND
POWER
L1
Reasonable provision shall be made for the
conservation of fuel and power in buildings
by─
(a) limiting heat gains and losses─
(i) through thermal elements and
other parts of the building fabric;
and
(ii) from pipes, ducts and vessels used
for space heating, space cooling
and hot water services;
(b) providing fixed building services
which—
(i) are energy efficient;
(ii) have effective controls;
and
(iii) are commissioned by testing and
adjusting as necessary to ensure
they use no more fuel and power
than is reasonable in the
circumstances; and
(c) providing to the owner sufficient
information about the building, the
fixed building services and their
maintenance requirements so that the
building can be operated in such a
manner as to use no more fuel and
power than is reasonable in the
circumstances.

Can't see a para 44 there.


Quote:
This requires the FITTING to provide the control circuitry.

Can't see that requirement either.


Quote:
This means there is nothing to stop someone subsequently removing the low energy (Megaman) lamp and replacing it with a regular tungsten or halogen lamp.

Nope.

Just like there's nothing to stop someone moving into their nice airtight building with good insulation and a highly efficient boiler and effective thermostats and zones and throwing open all the doors and windows in the middle of winter and whacking the thermostats up to max.


Quote:
So, if you were hoping to get around building control's insistence on 25% low energy requirement it won't wash. You would need to change at least 25% of the fittings for low energy specific fittings. SGU10s, for example.

Or you demand that Building Control tell you where the law requires that.

Although in this case the OP probably can't afford to start a fight with his BCO.
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ban-all-sheds

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:42 pm Reply with quote

surreysparks wrote:
as it looks as if I will have to remove 52 of them in a new build and find a replacment !!

Serves you, or the **** who thought it was a good idea to try and light a house with 2" diameter torches recessed into the ceiling, right.
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RF Lighting

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:26 pm Reply with quote

You still haven't seen a proper downlighter installation have you?
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ban-all-sheds

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:38 pm Reply with quote

I wonder how enormous that house is if it needs 52 luminaires?

I've got an averagely sized 3 bedroom semi, and in total, including wall lights, I've got less than half that number.
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RF Lighting

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:39 pm Reply with quote

Not very aesthetically pleasing though is it icon_wink.gif
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ban-all-sheds

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:44 pm Reply with quote

1) Yes it is.

2) It is infinitely more pleasing than an engineeringly offensive design which is hopelessly inefficient because it uses inappropriate products.
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RF Lighting

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:56 pm Reply with quote

No it isn't
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electronicsuk

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:44 pm Reply with quote

I'll be changing the lamps in my bedroom downlights to LEDs at some point next year. Perhaps, if it works out favourably, I can post some pictures and we can put this debate to bed once and for all.
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ban-all-sheds

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:17 am Reply with quote

Only if you can show that the luminaire design you chose is efficient at providing room illumination.

If not then all you will have done will be to replace one offensively inappropriate design with another.

Even if by using LED lamps you can light your room with 15W, if by using lights not designed to act like a torch you could have done it with 5W then your design is still wrong.
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surreysparks

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:49 pm Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies/comments guys..

We as electricians, do our best to accomadate what the the customer wants regarding what fittings we install. So if on a new build the spec asks for low voltage lights, I will put them in. My beef is that the megaman lamp is advertised all over the net as being Part L1 compliant.It turns out they only give 20 lumens per watt, not 40 which part L1 stipulates.I got those figures from Megaman. My next question is, What lights do you guys put in a new build that will satisfy the guy that issues the energy certificate and keeps the building inspector happy who wants to see low energy fire rated fittings ? Of course the builder wants to keep his costs down too !!
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electronicsuk

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:17 pm Reply with quote

ban-all-sheds wrote:

Even if by using LED lamps you can light your room with 15W, if by using lights not designed to act like a torch you could have done it with 5W then your design is still wrong.


I'd be impressed if you could light a room properly with 15 watts of anything in a single location, a-la pendant or single fitting.

LEDs work best at emitting light in one direction, so any LED lamp that radiates in 360 degrees is either employing multiple LEDs or a reflector, the latter of which is introducing another loss in itself.

I'd say that downlights lend themselves pretty well to LED lamps. If I could light my room with 25w of LED downlighting then I would be quite happy, and I don't think this is at all unrealistic with quality lamps. If that wouldn't settle the downlight argument then I can't think of anything that would.


Last edited by electronicsuk on Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total
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