Burglar Alarm Query

Yorkie · 2 Jan 2005

Hi all,

I'm about to fit an alarm to the house we've recently moved into.

In our last house, I fitted a the hard wired type which took me
an age to do, so on this house, I'm thinking of using a wireless
alarm. (The walls on this house are much thicker, and there aren't
any cavities)

Has anyone had any experience with these alarms - are they ok ?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

nstreet · 2 Jan 2005

Don't forget Part P buidling regs is now in force. Are you a competent person and does your work fit into the minor works category. If your alarm unit is going to be connected to the mains and it is in a kitchen you may need to comply, if I understand it correctly that is.

handyman2005 · 2 Jan 2005

Whilst the wire-less alarms are considerably easier to fit than hard wired alarms, they are nowhere near as reliable! False alarms are all too common. My home alarm is hard wired and has never false alarmed in over 10 years. Personally I'd go for a good quality hard wired version.

Lets face it Part P of the building regs. is simply another stealth tax by the government. If they were so concerned by the 20 or so deaths caused each year by electricity they would make it law to have RCD protected circuits everywhere or even voltages for lighting curcuits that are a "safe voltage", 240 volts is un-necessary for lighting circuits and could be stepped down at the consumer unit!

Now only people who have been on one of the special courses set by governing bodies can install and check household installations, these courses cost around £400 per year and will of course be passed on to the consumer.

Electricians will now be in the same class as CORGI registered gas fitters where they can charge as much as they want. Plumbers used to drive beat up old vans and now drive Porches, electricians will now follow.

The ironic thing is that you can still wire anything in your house yourself and then get the local authority to come and check it for you! but of course they will charge a fee of between £270 and £480. This is clearly another way for the government to make money! Jobs for the Boys!

Go for an hard wired alarm, it is often cheaper to get one fitted from the "LOOT" or similar than what you can buy the bits for yourself and they are fit by experts!

breezer · 2 Jan 2005

Yorkie said:
I'm about to fit an alarm to the house we've recently moved into.

Has anyone had any experience with these alarms - are they ok ?

Any help would be appreciated.

it is often good to do a search, if you had you would have found this

onesongrg · 2 Jan 2005

As far a part p is concerned (you fitted the alarm in december 2004)
Don't worry about that.

Fit a wired alarms system (eg ade accenta or a texecom) i have fitted a few wirless ones and found probloms, stick to what works, it will save time and money in the long run.

Onesongrg

alarm_guy · 2 Jan 2005

Have a look in the Yellow Pages and get a few quotes (most these days don't charge for a quote and survey) Ask what equipment they'll be using, and post it here. I, and I'm sure others will offer an opinion on wether it's any good. A basic 3 bed system can be done for around £350 with good equipment. Also, if you can afford it, go for a monitored system. No one really listens to bells only alarms these days Also, make sure you have good, strong locks and double glazing. These alone are often enough to put off most burglars. If you still want to do it yourself, definately go for a wired system with the best equipment you can afford.

Fluker · 3 Jan 2005

I've fitted Pyronix PCX not bad will text message your mobile and monitor to an ARC had no problems with the wireless parts.

breezer · 3 Jan 2005

Fluker said:
monitor to an ARC

an ARC will not police it though, unless you are a recognised company, and have a urn, again you need to be a recognised company

ARC= Alarm Recieving Centre (its where 99.9% of alarm calls go through to)

URN = Unique Refernce Number- issued by the Police

ban-all-sheds · 5 Jan 2005

handyman2005 said:
240 volts is un-necessary for lighting circuits and could be stepped down at the consumer unit!

Err - would you care to work out what size cables you'd need to carry 20x as much current (i.e. rated at 200A+) and keep voltage drop down to less than 0.48V?

Would you like to have to install such cables?

mapj1 · 5 Jan 2005

240 volts is un-necessary for lighting circuits and could be stepped down at the consumer unit!

Err - would you care to work out what size cables you'd need to carry 20x as much current (i.e. rated at 200A+) and keep voltage drop down to less than 0.48V?

Would you like to have to install such cables?

One could step down to say 50V (or 48, to be safe!) and use 2.5mm, without too much difficulty. However, the point is there is no safety argument to answer. This is all about unionisation by stealth, and using the latest fashion in 'may contain nuts' health and safety paranoia to mask it. As the 'regularisation procedure' for any work later found to have been not reported to BC will be a PIR, unless the work is than found to be actually wrong, and so corrective action is required, you have nothing at all to fear more than paying for a PIR when the house is sold (which will be many years down the line).
Only people trading and pretending to be something they aren't are in line
for anything more serioius than that.

ban-all-sheds · 6 Jan 2005

mapj1 said:
One could step down to say 50V (or 48, to be safe!) and use 2.5mm, without too much difficulty.

No - I'm sorry - you've still got no idea.

Ignoring the fact that nobody makes 48/50V lighting systems that you'd want in your home, and if the UK market was the only one, they'd be unlikely to start, will you please do the sums again?

Assuming a 1000W load (remember, a 6A domestic lighting circuit implies 1380W), 50V gives us a current of 20A.

2.5mm² cable can carry that for 5.5m before voltage drop becomes excessive.

Care to think this through a bit more?

Malc · 6 Jan 2005

I fitted a wireless to my mother's house but I wouldn't do so again

. The bell was solar powered - eventually it was so unreliable I had to add a low voltage cable to ensure it got enough power. The wireless links to the alarms did not like the foil on the ceiling plasterboard (house is a bungalow) and the one in the lounge would not talk to the alarm. I had to move that one so it was inline with the door and hall to give it line of sight to the outside where the alarm is. I guess the alarm gets back scatter.

So the conclusion is wired is much better. If you do go wireless make sure you can take it back and try everything in place before you decide to go ahead.

dingbat · 6 Jan 2005

ban-all-sheds said:
2.5mm² cable can carry that for 5.5m before voltage drop becomes excessive.

Did you mean 25.5m?

(All other comments still apply though)

ban-all-sheds · 6 Jan 2005

Not you as well.

VD for 2.5mm² is 18mV/A/m.

So at 20A the drop is 0.36V/m.

So at 5.55m the drop is 2V.

Remember we are talking about a 50V circuit here, so 2V is the 4% limit. Your comment about it should be 25.5m shows that you too have not grasped this, and are working with a maximum drop of 9.2V

dingbat · 6 Jan 2005

Yeah, sorry... I just did a quick calc using 9.2 and getting 25.55555555, jumped to the (absolutely wrong - wrong, wrong, wrong, damn you!) conclusion that you'd missed off the 2.

Abject apologies... must try harder... (although I was basically agreeing with you

)

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Burglar Alarm Query

breezer

breezer

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