Old Colours T&E

[JohnW2]

If you look carefully, a lot of extension leads are made from 1.25mm² flex.

Well, it does have a CCC of (just) 13A, so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised. At 13A, 45m of that would result in a VD of around 21.6V and hence a power dissipation of around 280W.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Astra99]

Your average end-user will plug in an extension lead without thought for its length, loading or anything else. Often it is just to drill a few holes or cut a few bits of wood, using (fairly) low power tools. There will, of course, be the occasion when Mr. Layman has been told that it will cost £x00 to install an addtional socket for an appliance drawing a heavy load, because such work has to be notified under Part PEE. He will then go and buy a (cheap) extension lead, which is unsuitable for the application, and problems, which could be fatal, result from the bodge-up precipitated by the cost to the end user of excessive regulation. Don't forget, if the shortest route from the telephone socket to where I want my computer is through a kitchen or bathroom, to run an RJ45 cable (voltage possibly a max of 500mV) or telephone extension cable (50v DC) I have to obtain LABC approval or pay a Part P electrician to do it. Clearly this is over-regulation, and thus, I as far as I am concerned, Part P is "in disrepute" I daresy, however, it's a nice little earner for the LABCs and for the bodies which administer the self-certification schemes!

PS I expect the hornets are about to burst from their nest!

 

[Monkeh]

an RJ45 cable (voltage possibly a max of 500mV)

Not RJ45 and definitely more than 500mV.

 

[JohnW2]

Your average end-user will plug in an extension lead without thought for its length, loading or anything else. Often it is just to drill a few holes or cut a few bits of wood, using (fairly) low power tools. There will, of course, be the occasion when Mr. Layman has been told that it will cost £x00 to install an addtional socket for an appliance drawing a heavy load, because such work has to be notified under Part PEE. He will then go and buy a (cheap) extension lead, which is unsuitable for the application, and problems, which could be fatal, result from the bodge-up precipitated by the cost to the end user of excessive regulation. Don't forget, if the shortest route from the telephone socket to where I want my computer is through a kitchen or bathroom, to run an RJ45 cable (voltage possibly a max of 500mV) or telephone extension cable (50v DC) I have to obtain LABC approval or pay a Part P electrician to do it. Clearly this is over-regulation, and thus, I as far as I am concerned, Part P is "in disrepute" I daresy, however, it's a nice little earner for the LABCs and for the bodies which administer the self-certification schemes!

No argument about any of that. Part P (and associated Schedule) was (or could have been) well-intentioned but was not (IMO) thought through carefully enough or written by people who knew enough and (maybe partially for those reasons) is essentially not enforced. In any event, a pre-requisite of such legislation is (again IMO) a serious overhaul of the training and regulation of 'qualified' electricians.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Your average end-user will plug in an extension lead without thought for its length, loading or anything else. Often it is just to drill a few holes or cut a few bits of wood, using (fairly) low power tools. There will, of course, be the occasion when Mr. Layman has been told that it will cost £x00 to install an addtional socket for an appliance drawing a heavy load, because such work has to be notified under Part PEE. He will then go and buy a (cheap) extension lead, which is unsuitable for the application, and problems, which could be fatal, result from the bodge-up precipitated by the cost to the end user of excessive regulation. Don't forget, if the shortest route from the telephone socket to where I want my computer is through a kitchen or bathroom, to run an RJ45 cable (voltage possibly a max of 500mV) or telephone extension cable (50v DC) I have to obtain LABC approval or pay a Part P electrician to do it. Clearly this is over-regulation, and thus, I as far as I am concerned, Part P is "in disrepute" I daresy, however, it's a nice little earner for the LABCs and for the bodies which administer the self-certification schemes!

And thus as far as I'm concerned you're an ignorant ranting fool with that barely coherent rubbish.

 

[janner10]

Too many armchair electricians in 1 thread AGAIN!

 

[seasickstevie]

What the hell is an ongoing debate about extension leads and RJ45 leads got to do with old colour RED 'n' BLACK ???????????

 

[JohnW2]

What the hell is an ongoing debate about extension leads and RJ45 leads got to do with old colour RED 'n' BLACK ???????????

Mainly because, for some inexplicable reason, at message 5 danechip posted:

I've seen an amazing extension lead 45 metres long in blue arctic cable from a DIY..........shed. Gets pretty warm with a mitre saw and vacuum cleaner sucking up the dust, and yes it's uncoiled. Got to LOVE B&Q

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

Don't forget, if the shortest route from the telephone socket to where I want my computer is through a kitchen or bathroom, to run an RJ45 cable (voltage possibly a max of 500mV) or telephone extension cable (50v DC) I have to obtain LABC approval or pay a Part P electrician to do it.

The voltages on twisted-pair Ethernet (not RJ45) are typically more in the range of 1 to 2.5V. Telephone is 50V DC when idle, but with up to about 90V AC superimposed during ringing. Not that those particular details affect the basic argument.

The current version of the exemptions from notification do actually permit both types of wiring to be run through a kitchen without notification, but not a bathroom. From schedule 4:

3. Work on—

(a) telephone wiring or extra-low voltage wiring for the purposes of communications, information technology, signalling, control and similar purposes, where the wiring is not in a special location;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/schedule/4/made

Although as I think most reading this thread will know, I agree fully with your views about the whole Part P business anyway. In fact so little logical thought and checking went into the original process that the first published draft of the exemptions in 2004 would have meant that even installing a battery powered doorbell in the hallway would have been notifiable work!

 

[fidom]

Has the old red and black cable been outlawed for new installations? I am in Scotland so I am still allowed to do DIY wiring.

It's not outlawed, but if it's a new installation why would you use it?
I have seen some diy wiring today, oh dear me

It was simply what I had to hand. I only wanted a short bit (about 15") from an existing socket to a new fused spur. This is for an inset fire in the living room. The fire previously had a plug on it but I am offering the house to let unfurnished and want to avoid the requirement for regular PAT tests. The rest of the ring main is in the old colours so it seemed reasonable to do the spur with matching cable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's not a "new installation", hence the confusion.

 

[fidom]

I "installed" an additional fused spur.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

"Installation" means the electrics in a whole property, or a significant discrete part of it.

So "new installation" means the entire wiring for a new property, or an extension on its own CU, or a complete rewire.

It does not mean just installing a new accessory.