how to cap off unused wires to regs..

[Essex1]

I don't expect a DIYer to knock down walls in their house and think it is ok to just chuck the cables into a JB and throw them in the ceiling.

What you expect and what is reality are very different.

I have seen several cases of cables and JBs dumped in a ceiling or other void.

There is a lot of ignorance in how to carry out electrical work and the testing necessary and the reasons why that testing is so important. Sadly a few "professional electricians" are also ignorant of the reasons. They simple follow the instructions. That is unforgivable in a professional electrician.

But ignorance in a DIYer has to be accepted and the DIYer given the advice they need along with an explanation behind the advice. The DIY does a job in some fashion and finds the results are OK in that the light works or the socket provides power to the appliance. As there is no smoke, flames or other obvious fault he or she assumes all is OK

Before one can help a DIYer one has to understand the position the DIYer is in. Some can be desperate to get power and / or lights working. Yes that sort of person is ignorant to have started the project but being aggressive to them will not help. Get them out of trouble even if it means leading by the hand with simple but detail instructions "put the red wire in L2 and the black wire in COM " After that [1] they realise they need to learn a bit more BEFORE starting another task and [2] they will come back for more advice and will be open minded about what they are told.

I understand your point and I am in no way saying this in an aggressive manor. Forgive me if this comes across in that way.

You are right there are aspects of all trades that complete unsatisfactory work.

My point is there is a difference between giving DIY advice and helping a guy to what appears to me be complete major works in his house.

If any qualified/competant electrician does not think that the testing procedure is the most important part of the indtalltion works then I am agraid they are not either competant or an electrician.

To give someone advice when not qualified to do so is dangerous. Especially given the worrying rise in domestic electrical fires over the last 10 years.

Scenerio:

An op does some shoddy work but believes what he has done is correct.

An electrical fire starts.

The op tells the police that he got the information form here and thought it was ok.

The advice giver would then be complicit in causing a fire.

 

[skotl]

I understand your point and I am in no way saying this in an aggressive manor. Forgive me if this comes across in that way...

Unfortunately, your posts are coming over as aggressive.

You seem to have arrived with the impression that it's your right or job to police this sub-forum and state who should and who should not be offered assistance. That is contrary to the entire point of this forum, generally, and the electrics sub-forum in particular.

The fact that you are meeting such resistance to your views and your stance should be informative, I'd have hoped.

You're not going to stop people asking questions, and you're not going to stop people helping them, especially when that help is intended to avoid the OPs from hurting themselves or others. You weren't elected as sheriff so please stop acting as if you were.

 

[Essex1]

What you expect and what is reality are very different ... But ignorance in a DIYer has to be accepted

Accepted, as in recognising it's existence yes.

Accepted as in viewed as acceptable, never.

If the guy had knocked down a wall in ignorance of the structural implications, and the house then fell down, or somebody was injured or killed, would you say "Oh well - never mind, he was a DIYer, we just have to accept it", or do you think he would deserve criticism?

even if it means leading by the hand with simple but detail instructions "put the red wire in L2 and the black wire in COM "

No, no, no, no and no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

And would probably face a manslaughter charge if someone was killed.

 

[Essex1]

I understand your point and I am in no way saying this in an aggressive manor. Forgive me if this comes across in that way...

Unfortunately, your posts are coming over as aggressive.

You seem to have arrived with the impression that it's your right or job to police this sub-forum and state who should and who should not be offered assistance. That is contrary to the entire point of this forum, generally, and the electrics sub-forum in particular.

The fact that you are meeting such resistance to your views and your stance should be informative, I'd have hoped.

You're not going to stop people asking questions, and you're not going to stop people helping them, especially when that help is intended to avoid the OPs from hurting themselves or others. You weren't elected as sheriff so please stop acting as if you were.

You continue to give what you think is sound advice then. I will continue to give what I feel is sound advice.

I don't do things I am untrained to do when safety is of the upmost importance.

 

[bernardgreen]

My point is there is a difference between giving DIY advice and helping a guy to what appears to me be complete major works in his house.

Don't under estimate what can be done by a DIYer who gets the help and advice required when he or she asks. Many houses are total DIY builds and that is a very major task. ( ours was ).

 

[skotl]

...
I don't do things I am untrained to do when safety is of the upmost importance.

You realise this is a DIY forum, right?

 

[Essex1]

...
I don't do things I am untrained to do when safety is of the upmost importance.

You realise this is a DIY forum, right?

Yes I do. But I would expect DIYers to get advice from competent, qualified people. Not other DIYers who, with respect do not have a clue themselves.

 

[Essex1]

My point is there is a difference between giving DIY advice and helping a guy to what appears to me be complete major works in his house.

Don't under estimate what can be done by a DIYer who gets the help and advice required when he or she asks. Many houses are total DIY builds and that is a very major task. ( ours was ).

You are right. And you cannot learn to do electrical alterations from some bloke on a forum.

 

[JohnW2]

I would expect DIYers to get advice from competent, qualified people. Not other DIYers who, with respect do not have a clue themselves.

I don't know how much lurking you have done but, if you don't know already, you might be surprised to discover which of the forum members are, and are not, "competent qualified people" - and also by the fact that some of the DIYers here (and everywhere) have a good few 'clues'! You really have to judge people as you find them, not on the basis of paper qualifications or employment history.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Essex1]

I would expect DIYers to get advice from competent, qualified people. Not other DIYers who, with respect do not have a clue themselves.

I don't know how much lurking you have done but, if you don't know already, you might be surprised to discover which of the forum members are, and are not, "competent qualified people" - and also by the fact that some of the DIYers here (and everywhere) have a good few 'clues'! You really have to judge people as you find them, not on the basis of paper qualifications or employment history.

Kind Regards, John

Not that it matters but I will judge people on the advice they give. Me personally would NEVER advice a novice to complete final connections or to test.

I could never forgive myself if someone got hurt b

 

[JohnW2]

Not that it matters but I will judge people on the advice they give.

That's obviously how it should be.

Me personally would NEVER advice a novice to complete final connections or to test.

I suppose that depends a lot of what you classify as a 'novice' and, obviously, what sort of work one is talking about. If you believe that non-electricians should not re-energise a circuit after, say, replacing a socket or switch, you would effectively be saying that DIY electrical work should never happen.

I could never forgive myself if someone got hurt b

Fair enough, but the only way you can be totally certain that will not happen is by never giving advice to 'amateurs', and hence not choosing (no-one is forced!) to participate in a "DIY" forum.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Essex1]

Not that it matters but I will judge people on the advice they give.

That's obviously how it should be.

Me personally would NEVER advice a novice to complete final connections or to test.

I suppose that depends a lot of what you classify as a 'novice' and, obviously, what sort of work one is talking about. If you believe that non-electricians should not re-energise a circuit after, say, replacing a socket or switch, you would effectively be saying that DIY electrical work should never happen.

I could never forgive myself if someone got hurt b

Fair enough, but the only way you can be totally certain that will not happen is by never giving advice to 'amateurs', and hence not choosing (no-one is forced!) to participate in a "DIY" forum.

Kind Regards, John

I would class anyone who has to seek the answer on a forum as a novice.

I do believe a certain amount of work could be completed by a novice. Installation of cables etc. never should a non-competent person access live parts. - Never.

Never should any alteration be put into use without testing first to ensure it is safe for use. Even more so if the building has other users such as children or housemates who have no idea that the person carrying out the work got the ok from a forum to carry on.

There is a legal consequence and a moral duty of competant persons to ensure this is clear in the 'advice' they are giving out.

 

[skotl]

...Fair enough, but the only way you can be totally certain that will not happen is by never giving advice to 'amateurs', and hence not choosing (no-one is forced!) to participate in a "DIY" forum.

Kind Regards, John

...Not that it matters but I will judge people on the advice they give. Me personally would NEVER advice a novice to complete final connections or to test.

I could never forgive myself if someone got hurt

That's absolutely clear, and nobody is pressuring you to offer advice. But you have no right to stop anyone else participating in this forum or offering advice, as John suggests.

So why are you here? Given that you clearly understand that this is a DIY forum and that you're not going to offer advice to DIY posters are you simply here to stir up a fight? Is this just entertainment for you? This forum was around for many years before you stumbled across it and will be around for many more years after you tire of trolling and move on to your next hobby.

 

[Essex1]

...Fair enough, but the only way you can be totally certain that will not happen is by never giving advice to 'amateurs', and hence not choosing (no-one is forced!) to participate in a "DIY" forum.

Kind Regards, John

...Not that it matters but I will judge people on the advice they give. Me personally would NEVER advice a novice to complete final connections or to test.

I could never forgive myself if someone got hurt

That's absolutely clear, and nobody is pressuring you to offer advice. But you have no right to stop anyone else participating in this forum or offering advice, as John suggests.

So why are you here? Given that you clearly understand that this is a DIY forum and that you're not going to offer advice to DIY posters are you simply here to stir up a fight? Is this just entertainment for you? This forum was around for many years before you stumbled across it and will be around for many more years after you tire of trolling and move on to your next hobby.

So are you seriously suggesting that me advising an op to seek the help of an electrician when it comes to final connections and testing to make sure the installation/alteration is safe amounts to bad advice and/or trolling?

Wow.

The reason I am here is to try and balance out the what I perceive as poor advice. Now I understand that those giving the advice think they are helping. Of course they do. Sometimes, however I believe safety comes first. Especially if there are going to be others using the installation in question.

 

[skotl]

I'm pretty convinced now that you're just trolling for the s...s and giggles, so I think I'll just ignore you.

If everyone else does, too, then hopefully you'll get bored and find some other people to wind up.