Extending Freesat to other rooms ?

[Brian Lacey]

We moved into our 1970's bungalow last August.
Outside there is a digital TV aerial and freesat dish.
In the lounge we have a new LG led tv working from the incoming Freesat cable, no problems.
The older aerial sockets, one in the lounge and two bedrooms appear to be dead as the tv says no signal. Not too much of an issue as there is more to watch on freest.
Question is …. can I get the freesat wired into the existing aerial sockets so that a TV can be used in other rooms or.. is there a better way to watch freest in the other rooms ?
I do not want to give Mr Murdoch/sky a penny, matter of principle ! so no sky systems at all please.
There is a booster in the loft for the other outlets and although lit the sockets are dead. Might be the booster that is defunct but if not could a link to the dish be made to it to spread the freesat signal ?
Don't mind getting an engineer in to do the work if it is possible.
Cheers and thanks
Brian.

 

[OwainDIYer]

A lot depends on the cable in the walls. Old TV coax isn't suitable for satellite.

You can't connect a sat dish to an old TV booster either.

Most dishes (actually the LNB on the 'arm' of the dish) will feed 4 satellite points; you can get octos which will feed 8. You need a dedicated cable from each output on the LNB to each point round the house. (two LNB outputs and two cables if you want to use Freesat + watch and record separate channels simultaneously at a point)

More than 4 (or points you need to take 4 cables from a quattro LNB to a multiswitch in the loft, and then a cable (or two if you want watch and record) to each point round the house. Most multiswitches you can also connect in a terrestrial aerial for TV/FM/DAB and send that to each point on the same cable too.

 

[Brian Lacey]

Many thanks, your first two lines answer my question.
The cable IS old coax and the booster will be no use.
Looks like it will have to be new cables then but installation and hiding them in the walls will not be easy, all cavity infilled and limited loft access. Surface cable looks messy so I will have a word with a local installer and see what they can offer.
Cheers and thanks.
Brian.

 

[Sam Gangee]

You should read all of this page:
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/split_feed.htm

 

[winston1]

We moved into our 1970's bungalow last August.
Outside there is a digital TV aerial and freesat dish.

There is NO SUCH THING as a DIGITAL AERIAL. You have an aerial.

 

[ericmark]

There are a number of free satellite boxes, main difference is the electronic program guide, free to air and freesat both use satellite it's the EPG which varies. I have a IceWeasel box it has four TV type connectors and two satellite type connectors, in theory you can have a second box fed from first box, in practice it has to be same polarisation and frequency so does not really work.

Although in theory the free-view and satellite bits are separate, you can link them, but there is a analogue signal from the box which you could route to another room, quality not that good, but it does work.

As to digital aerial, this was the name given to broad band aerials used when digital first came out, as programs were slotted in to where ever space could be found, when analogue switched off digital services were grouped again, so the so called digital aerial was no longer required, it means you have more metal in the sky than is required so more prone to damage. Today you in general don't want a wide band aerial, there may be some Welsh vales where it is still required, but in the main it means you have an aerial more likely to get wind or electric storm damage.

Even the government get it wrong some times, I read the 1990's licence, it said apparatus for receiving radio signals could be black and white or colour, so it would seem if I paint aerial black and white then only need a black and white licence, this was clearly wrong they meant the apparatus for processing the signals or the TV set, not the aerial. The rules have changed, although my set top box processes the digital signals into a colour signal to the TV set, if the TV is a black and white one I don't need a colour licence, however in the 1990's I did.

 

[winston1]

As to digital aerial, this was the name given to broad band aerials used when digital first came out

Rubbish. Wide band aerials were not new when digital came out, they were always needed in a few areas. The term "digital aerial" was invented by unscrupulous manufacturers and dealers who wanted to con the public into buying a new aerial when it was not necessary. Very few areas required new aerials as digital channels were generally slotted into the same frequency group.

I repeat there is no such thing as a "digital aerial". An aerial cannot distinguish the type of transmission it is receiving within its frequency passband, or outside it for that matter.

 

[Lucid]

There are a number of free satellite boxes, main difference is the electronic program guide, free to air and freesat both use satellite it's the EPG which varies. I have a IceWeasel box it has four TV type connectors and two satellite type connectors, in theory you can have a second box fed from first box, in practice it has to be same polarisation and frequency so does not really work.

Although in theory the free-view and satellite bits are separate, you can link them, but there is a analogue signal from the box which you could route to another room, quality not that good, but it does work.

As to digital aerial, this was the name given to broad band aerials used when digital first came out, as programs were slotted in to where ever space could be found, when analogue switched off digital services were grouped again, so the so called digital aerial was no longer required, it means you have more metal in the sky than is required so more prone to damage. Today you in general don't want a wide band aerial, there may be some Welsh vales where it is still required, but in the main it means you have an aerial more likely to get wind or electric storm damage.

Even the government get it wrong some times, I read the 1990's licence, it said apparatus for receiving radio signals could be black and white or colour, so it would seem if I paint aerial black and white then only need a black and white licence, this was clearly wrong they meant the apparatus for processing the signals or the TV set, not the aerial. The rules have changed, although my set top box processes the digital signals into a colour signal to the TV set, if the TV is a black and white one I don't need a colour licence, however in the 1990's I did.

A couple of minor points to pick up on...

Before the Government started selling off the upper portions of the terrestrial band for 4G, Log Periodic were considered wideband. They have a smaller wind loading than something like a contract Yagi (grouped) with a small reflector. So it's not really the case that all wide bands "put a lot of metal in the air". Granted, a lot of what's sold as wide and is physically large, but they're not the only wide band game in town.

Also, widebands are required still. e.g. Winter Hill has a very wide spread of frequencies.

Re: apparatus for receiving... That wold be the TV receiver surely?

 

[Sam Gangee]

Well, this is a rare occasion when I have to disagree with Lucid.
So-called "wideband" aerials are obsolete in the UK. They have not been required anywhere since the government sold off the upper UHF frequencies for mobile phone usage. A "wideband" aerial is designed to work with UHF channels 21 - 68. However, the UHF band now covers only 21 - 60 so a "group L" aerial is now sufficient.
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/Aerial_Groups.htm

Very soon, the government will sell off more channels, leaving 21 - 50 so a "Group K" will become the new "wideband". Those people still using a conventional "wideband Yagi" aerial by that time might well benefit from changing it because its gain curve is really not suitable and there's a real possibility of interference from mobile phones.

 

[ericmark]

I would say at the aerial the radio signal becomes a wired signal so the aerial receives radio signals, the TV set receives a hard wired signal from the aerial or pre-amp etc.

At to digital aerial yes they do exist, this is how you do radio direction and ranging or RADAR for short. A pulse is sent out, and the receiver calculates from the frequency shift and speed of return to work out what is in front of the beam and what speed it is travelling at. The aerials normally rotate, and because of the switching speed required until the magnetron was invented were very large.

I was lucky enough as a member of radio club in Suffolk to attend a lecture buy the late Sir Richard Davis on the early days of RADAR. Very interesting including the dead seagulls being found to have landed ready cooked. It seems they actually tried to build a death ray, however all they actually got from all the work was the microwave cooker.

So yes the aerials designed for RADAR are true digital aerials, we have been using digital for 100's of years, it was used well before analogue. But the fax machine was actually invented before Morse code. As to if the information sent as a fax is digital or analogue is a matter for debate. Clearly the one in Paris told it weighs 5 ton and is 10 foot tall was digital. It was a large pendulum which scanned a soot covered metal sheet one end with message written in it, and a solenoid the other end. As well as being called fax it is also called slow scan TV, and wiring. Watch an old USA film on cops and robbers and they "wire" a picture through.

So the question is was the cathode ray TV ever not digital? We had 405 lines and the electrons made the dots on the screen glow to convert the digital signal to an analogue signal our eyes could see, it seems many birds can't watch TV as their brains are faster than ours and so see it as a series of dots rather than a picture.

This analogue or digital question has come up many times, the PLC's I worked on had 254 levels of voltage it was really digital it was not infernally variable yet it was called analogue. In real terms the sound for a TV may have been analogue, but the picture was always digital. And Television means being able to see over a distance, sound is not included in the name.

So please show me an analogue TV aerial, they don't exist, OK the spinning disks used by that Scotsman may have been analogue, but the cathode ray tube has always used a digital system.