New Covid rules for the UK coming into effect for...

Peter Hitchens states: "By Covid deaths per million, a flawed measure but closer to objective fact than any other. Latest from Statista : Sweden: 1,476, UK 2,184" Despite not using measures as restrictive as ours.
Why do these antivaxers keep making stuff up?

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...rol-measures-from-22-november-and-1-december/

Vaccine passports for large events, seated service at restaurants and bars only, rules on maximum numbers allowed in any shops based on square meterage. Mandatory seating on public transport.

They're more restrictive than us, dolt.
 
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Justin My Sp02 relaxed sitting is around 93%. Hyperventilate a bit and it goes to 95-96. Walk around or do just about anything and it goes to 95%. Relaxed and hands a bit cold and it goes to 95%. If I am cold and body say forget keeping hands warm it may drop to 90 - a borderline reading. That doesn't mean dead - it means getting near the point when it can cause problems. The unit comes with warnings about how to use it. LOL Yes I bought one. Used sensibly it can save bothering them if anyone here gets it.

;) Sounds like if you ever go in they might not let you out but they do have other ways of checking oxygen levels. Whole host of other things with blood tests too. Blood markers for all sorts of things are available from simple tests. It's probably how they detect underlying conditions. Some relate to what people have done recently though. My wife had a prediabetic test a few days after she ate a bunch of grapes. The readings also increase as people get older.

Youtube nuts - no thanks. There are all sorts around. On hospital stay durations it was easy to find reports via google. It's not now. Ok the ones I have seen don't relate to Omicron but given the same symptoms needed to get treated I don't think 24hrs is on. There are a number of things they use now to speed up recovery but that short is going too far. Some older number. 80% of people who will die do so within 14days of being admitted. Survival rate following mechanical ventilation is under 50% - making antivaxers look even more stupid. It seems high pressure air breathing is seen as another method of ventilating people suggesting it's an HDU treatment.

There is no way that 3days average means there must be some one days. For instance the average age of people who die from covid is rather high but believe it or not figures in the past have built up in a triangular shape from a few at 40 and there are always some younger. At 80+ there is a big jump and some of those will be 90 or older. Some of the really older recover. The fact there is a jump makes the average look high but it hides the fact that 50's die and also more likely to spend more time in hospital anyway.

Only thing at the moment that bugs me is they do not seem to be producing the usual weekly reports. No more specific Omicron info either but studies will appear at some point.

One thing Omicron should help with is re infection. The numbers of probables run at 1% last time I saw them but in many cases sequencing info isn't available to they have had to use symptoms to some extent. The official chance of it at the moment is 0.5%. Definite re infection based on sequencing is much lower. That should be cleared up pretty quickly now.
We know some stay in a long time though so for a 2.8 average.... you reckon no 1's?? 2 days is still very short.
If I see the same docs giving their exps again I'll let you know. Haven't looked recently.
Not all youtube people are selling a line! The drs were doing them just to let each other know what they were finding. It's just a channel.
The educational ones eg . There are several hours of these. Watch the covid ones, the ones on chloraquine etc, and the ones on antibodies and the immune system. Try it you won't catch anything!
 
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Has anyone seen (or can point me to) the demographics and person specifics of the people who are currently dying (or getting hospital treatment) for covid?

Back at the start there was a big emphasis on who was getting it and dying from it, but nowadays I don't see it mentioned other than a reference to vaccinated/unvaccinated.
Know what you mean , we used to be able to compare bus drivers and taxi drivers...

Not many very useful for omicron yet, most don't separate it, and of course in some countries you can't very easily because they had delta already with its much more serious tendencies.
The Age profiles are out there but SA only vaccinated their oldies. Omicron was hitting more of younger deciles.

Interesting piece though small samples here. From respectable looking SA lab. Funded by Gates.:eek:!
Good news on the face of it and if it's not all a hoax...
It says (paraphrasing) and with caveats mostly about uncertain previous infection history
omicron protects well against symptomatic infection with omicron - as you'd expect
omicron protects quite well against symptomatic infection with delta - very good news, as mass exposure to omicron could knobble delta.
delta doesn't protect against symptomatic infection with omicron - also good*
And info about beta which is probably history anyway.​
*That one's good because it was thought that SA previous high exposure to natural delta could be reducing SA omicron infection, which is dropping off fast now.
If it wasn't, then that's good for us, because we aren't worse off by comparison with SA.



Not too much(?) point comparing between countries yet, EU are all at different stages. There used to be numbers for predicting rate of spread by type/degree of curbs, but they seem to have gone too. Maybe they didn't work...
(Comparing US states is fun).
Local (ie even country) infection growth will depend partially how many entry points you have. If you have lots of widespread rich sources, the (eg) country infection count will go up faster than if it got into just one individual.
 
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Peter Hitchens states: "By Covid deaths per million, a flawed measure but closer to objective fact than any other. Latest from Statista : Sweden: 1,476, UK 2,184" Despite not using measures as restrictive as ours.
Sweden proves nothing.

New Zealand had more restrictive measures initially, but less economic damage and only 51 deaths
 
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New Zealand had more restrictive measures initially, but less economic damage and only 51 deaths

This is the area that interests me most. Why the differences and what to do about them when they crop up. There has been 2 close misses in recent years and some countries learned from those as they were hit by them. This time round it seems (google) Taiwan for instance have had 850 deaths. S Korea 5,730. China 4,512. These numbers probably relate to cases. Cases in some ways are more important. The UK's demographics differ from many other countries but many western countries don't.

China currently it seems are leaping in when they pick up a limited number of infected people. They test everybody in the area. Seems they will continue to do this until 80% of their population have been vaccinated.

What is missing is info on economic damage. I suspect the west will not look too good in this respect and that could be due to acting to late and announcements when world supply of items that are needed can't cope. ;) Looks like tests may be hitting that point now even our own pcr testing. Politicians generally do not plan long term. They make noises to indicate they are doing something. Ours are reluctant to use compulsion. Taiwan's fines for instance for people who don't do what they should are large. China - people to some extent have to go along with what they are told to do. Korea's people are used to being monitored. Phones and card usage are tracked, Results thrown away after a certain number of days and the data is used for nothing else.

So far I have only heard of one person in an ordinary job being told if they want to keep it they will get jabbed. Some businesses are now saying something must be done to prevent lockdowns. Gov currently - risking one. They want people working not isolating best way to achieve that is avoid or limit the chances of them catching it. The gov is not doing that. They have recently decided to limit spread but why not do that earlier.
 
You keep saying Itminion is wrong but you fail to say where or why.

I can only conclude you have no valid counter argument
Your "only conclusion" doesn't allow for the fact that I don't have to answer the trolls.
*****
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The Whitty thing- he's being economical with the truth, which is understandable to create an illusion.
I explained enough, already.
If someone is in hospital less time, say SA's 3 days instead of 8 (it was less than 3), then they aren't as ill, so they aren't as much of a burden on you while they're in. Simple, obvious and applies in many arenas we all see. It's obviously NOT just the number of days. :rolleyes:
If that's really not obvious try it with numbers, you'd soon see very small fractions of the hospital load, in a minute's thinking. Or ask like a normal human being and I'll set something out. There's probably loads of youtubes on it...

*********
 
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This is the area that interests me most. Why the differences and what to do about them when they crop up. There has been 2 close misses in recent years and some countries learned from those as they were hit by them. This time round it seems (google) Taiwan for instance have had 850 deaths. S Korea 5,730. China 4,512. These numbers probably relate to cases. Cases in some ways are more important. The UK's demographics differ from many other countries but many western countries don't.

China currently it seems are leaping in when they pick up a limited number of infected people. They test everybody in the area. Seems they will continue to do this until 80% of their population have been vaccinated.

What is missing is info on economic damage. I suspect the west will not look too good in this respect and that could be due to acting to late and announcements when world supply of items that are needed can't cope. ;) Looks like tests may be hitting that point now even our own pcr testing. Politicians generally do not plan long term. They make noises to indicate they are doing something. Ours are reluctant to use compulsion. Taiwan's fines for instance for people who don't do what they should are large. China - people to some extent have to go along with what they are told to do. Korea's people are used to being monitored. Phones and card usage are tracked, Results thrown away after a certain number of days and the data is used for nothing else.

So far I have only heard of one person in an ordinary job being told if they want to keep it they will get jabbed. Some businesses are now saying something must be done to prevent lockdowns. Gov currently - risking one. They want people working not isolating best way to achieve that is avoid or limit the chances of them catching it. The gov is not doing that. They have recently decided to limit spread but why not do that earlier.

Political motives are unclear to me. Yes they all want to be respected, and re-elected, and thought to be caring for the people, but not restraining the rights of the people to the extent that they go rioting, and while watching after the economy. Bit enigmatic how they weight those?
Omicron looks to be a blimmin elusive thing which could be hard to squash by track and trace or partial lockdowns. People getting colds during our lockdown weren't unusual. Plus I wouldn't trust China not to falsify the figures for political expediency.
 
Boris's motives at the moment aim at stressing the NHS a lot for several weeks that could even be longer. No idea, depends on how many and when people catch it. Some sectors of the NHS are saying that for several reasons they are now more stressed than they have ever been. They appear to be heading into the essential services only stage. Some are saying they are already.

There is a plot though but as a typical politician is a pontificating word smith they seldom explain anything and in practice they may not even mention facts we should be aware of. They also don't do that much of the work. Their minions and advisors do even in terms of getting elected. There are specialists in that particular letter area. Also some harp strings that are easy to pluck to influence people.

The plot is essentially delay boosters to a point in time where they do most good. Pretty obvious thing to do. Start too soon and the effects wear off too soon. Omicron coming along is just something that happened. It doesn't change the need to do what they have done and may actually help. We are going to find out - that's the only way actually. Another may crop up. Nothing they can do about that.

I also think that herd immunity has figured all along. I also think it still is. The alternative is more severe lock downs or applying them sooner. Whitty mentioned this rather early on but no mention of how it would be used.

There are examples of what they do - reduce isolation times providing tests are used. Tests run short. Why didn't they order more sooner, SEP maybe but they have appeared to do something. Other countries may do the same - could lead to a world shortage. Seems that PCR testing capacity is being severely stressed. They have known what they will be doing and what the problems are for some time. We get a winter every year. Flu might crop up next but masks will help a bit with that. Flue jabs too but on odd years they don't work so well.
 
Boris's motives at the moment aim at stressing the NHS a lot for several weeks that could even be longer. No idea, depends on how many and when people catch it. Some sectors of the NHS are saying that for several reasons they are now more stressed than they have ever been. They appear to be heading into the essential services only stage. Some are saying they are already.

There is a plot though but as a typical politician is a pontificating word smith they seldom explain anything and in practice they may not even mention facts we should be aware of. They also don't do that much of the work. Their minions and advisors do even in terms of getting elected. There are specialists in that particular letter area. Also some harp strings that are easy to pluck to influence people.

The plot is essentially delay boosters to a point in time where they do most good. Pretty obvious thing to do. Start too soon and the effects wear off too soon. Omicron coming along is just something that happened. It doesn't change the need to do what they have done and may actually help. We are going to find out - that's the only way actually. Another may crop up. Nothing they can do about that.

I also think that herd immunity has figured all along. I also think it still is. The alternative is more severe lock downs or applying them sooner. Whitty mentioned this rather early on but no mention of how it would be used.

There are examples of what they do - reduce isolation times providing tests are used. Tests run short. Why didn't they order more sooner, SEP maybe but they have appeared to do something. Other countries may do the same - could lead to a world shortage. Seems that PCR testing capacity is being severely stressed. They have known what they will be doing and what the problems are for some time. We get a winter every year. Flu might crop up next but masks will help a bit with that. Flue jabs too but on odd years they don't work so well.

disentangling govt messaging is very difficult.

Johnson despite having an 80 seat majority has the ERG/CRG nutters to keep happy
Add in Johnsons bad ratings and it becomes obvious his Covid announcements are political not health based.

The govt has also chosen a path influenced by greed above science, so it’s decisions are made in maximise private healthcare contracts - the huge amount of testing isn’t done for our benefit - it’s done so people like Owen Paterson get ££££.

All of which allows plenty of bandwidth for conspiracists to fuel their vacuous arguments
 
Fergy has been on the box. Some signs of infections levelling off in London. Infection rates so high he reckons that they have to plateau within 3 weeks if rates continue at this level. Also pointed out that rate in the under 50's is so high it hasn't had time to spread into the 50+ groups.

The precautions may reduce rates so not a good idea to get too excited. They take a while to change things. He will know that too and also what herd immunised under 50's means in practice.

Political noises about maybe having to prioritise where the supplies of testing are used due to shortages. Maybe capacity for PCR too? Talk of more maybe, not that clear.

Notch7 not really they get people with covid isolating, end of really - who makes the profit is another aspect.
 
graph specially for the anti jabbers

enjoy

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graph specially for the anti jabbers

enjoy

Notch you never answered why Ferguson's predictions were so wrong on:

Bird flu: Ferguson predicted 200 million deaths; the eventual number was 282
Swine flu: Ferguson predicted 65,000 deaths; the eventual number was 457

Add to these his recent prediction that there will be 3,000 deaths a day from omicron by January.

This is very important because it's his incorrect predictions that all the restrictions have been based on since the start. I won't let you off the hook you wriggler.
 
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