They Shoot Horses, don't they?

[motorbiking]

Similar situations occur with the Wills of those who have dementia. The Lawyer can simply say, Mr X seemed lucid when I read his changes back to him.

It seems this Bill might fail. A lot of MPs seem against it, but wont say why.

 

[ajohn]

It seems this Bill might fail. A lot of MPs seem against it, but wont say why.

Might be due to the likelihood of mission creep as more conditions get added over time.

Wills - can be a pain in the neck and no real need if some one has descendants unless they want to depart from the usual rule(s).

 

[motorbiking]

Might be due to the likelihood of mission creep as more conditions get added over time.

Wills - can be a pain in the neck and no real need if some one has descendants unless they want to depart from the usual rule(s).

other than Mrs AJohn could get screwed by Ajohn Jnr depending on the value of your assets. or your kids could get screwed because mrs aJohn gets married again.

it takes 30 minutes and you don't even need a lawyer.

 

[blup]

Gordon Brown against the bill as is the justice secretary. Kieth says he is neutral: how can you be PM and neutral on a moral issue? Several supporters of the legislation have remarked on the inconvenience of having to travel abroad at present. FFS you are going there to kill yourself, inconvenience is the least of your worries.

 

[Odds]

When the Bell rings the Division will be marked between both sides of the debate: One new mp is quoted in the Guardian, saying -
“I’m genuinely the most back and forth on this that I’ve been on anything, I had a conversation during the election campaign with a woman whose husband was on a [syringe] driver for 12 days,” the MP said. “I can honestly say that conversation really changed my mind and put me in the pro camp. But the challenge for the people who are pro is whether they can convince everybody that this bill is narrow enough. I don’t know what they could do prior to Friday to get that over.”

John McDonnell has seen it all before but after many years of listening to the arguments he's decided in favour of the Bill and...As it is a free vote, there are figures from the political left and right on both sides. Former Tory cabinet ministers Kit Malthouse and David Davis are among the leading advocates for a change in the law. It is also an issue that has divided politicians who have almost always agreed. McDonnell will be voting in the opposite division lobby to some of his oldest political fellow travellers on the left, including Diane Abbott. Jeremy Corbyn has also previously indicated he will oppose assisted dying.

Could go either way.

 

[blup]

Surprised the toreys haven't taken the opportunity to make political capital on this. Its a classic marmite issue. Making issues black and white is the way the right have gained political ground since brexhit.

 

[Brigadier]

how can you be PM and neutral on a moral issue?

Because it is not just a moral issue.
The practicalities and safeguards are at least as important as the right.....

 

[blup]

Because it is not just a moral issue.
The practicalities and safeguards are at least as important as the right.....

What is assisted dying if not a point of principle? Its like the bogus argument that the death penalty is wrong because innocent people might hang.
If its wrong its wrong. If its right its right

 

[Brigadier]

While you might agree with the principle, you might be unconvinced that it can be enacted without risks of miscarriage, for want of a better word.

Death penalty is a poor example, imho.
with assisted dying, the "victim" may be unable to make their wishes known beyond doubt. The decision will sometimes be made "on their behalf".

With the death penalty, by default the victim has no say in the matter.

 

[Odds]

While you might agree with the principle, you might be unconvinced that it can be enacted without risks of miscarriage, for want of a better word.

Death penalty is a poor example, imho.
with assisted dying, the "victim" may be unable to make their wishes known beyond doubt. The decision will sometimes be made "on their behalf".

With the death penalty, by default the victim has no say in the matter.

Anyone who asks for assisted dying must do so twice with written consent. I guess the second time is asking"are you sure?" and whe they clearly consent to do so, with the doctor's approval and legal judgement, i ca't see how much more can be done to safeguard patient safety. Thirty one countires worldwide have assisted dying entitlements and the UK is proposing the most stringet measures of them all.

 

[Brigadier]

Anyone who asks for assisted dying must do so twice with written consent. I guess the second time is asking"are you sure?" and whe they clearly consent to do so, with the doctor's approval and legal judgement, i ca't see how much more can be done to safeguard patient safety. Thirty one countires worldwide have assisted dying entitlements and the UK is proposing the most stringet measures of them all.

Tell Blup to tell Sir Kier.

 

[Odds]

Tell Blup to tell Sir Kier.

will do.

 

[Notch7]

Kieth says he is neutral: how can you be PM and neutral on a moral issue?

No its because he doesnt want to influence people.

its a free vote and MPs need to make their own decision not be influenced by a leader

FFS you are going there to kill yourself, inconvenience is the least of your worries.

if you are suffering a progressive disease, travelling might become increasingly difficult which might then force people to travel earlier than they would want to

 

[Notch7]

The reality is that assisted dying already exists...............have a read about the Liverpool pathway

In hospitals people close to dying are not given a dignified death, they might have food, water, oxygen withheld to speed up the dying process, some of these will suffer painful horrible deaths

My Mum went through this, though thankfully never suffered, I took my Dad in to see her in hospital and the Dr took us to one side and said "your wife is close to the end of her life, we want to stop her food" You can imagine how my Dad felt hearing that. We then had to go into the ward to see Mum and chat away to her.............(they actually returned her to the care home and withheld oxygen, so she died 2 days later)


Im not sure if the proposed legislation is structured correctly or has enough safeguards, but lets not kid ourselves that dying is not assisted in hospitals, anybody that has visited a hospital ward containing mostly very elderly people basically waiting to die, knows what we do currently is not great.







old 2012 article on Liverpool pathway:

Eighty-five per cent of NHS trusts have adopted an end-of-life care regime which can involve withholding food and drink from terminally ill patients, figures suggest.

And almost two-thirds of trusts that have used the Liverpool care pathway (LCP) have received financial incentives totalling millions of pounds for the implementation of the method, according to
Eighty-five per cent of NHS trusts have adopted an end-of-life care regime which can involve withholding food and drink from terminally ill patients, figures suggest.

And almost two-thirds of trusts that have used the Liverpool care pathway (LCP) have received financial incentives totalling millions of pounds for the implementation of the method, according to figures from the Daily Telegraph.

Data obtained using the Freedom of Information Act shows that 85% of 72 trusts use the method – which recommends that in some circumstances doctors withdraw treatment, food and water from sedated patients in their final days.

Of those trusts, 62% said they had received, or expected to receive, cash incentives for meeting targets associated with the implementation of the LCP, according to the newspaper.

NHS trusts adopt end-of-life regime which can involve withholding food

Two-thirds of trusts have received financial incentives for using Liverpool care pathway for terminally ill patients

www.theguardian.com

 

[blup]

No its because he doesnt want to influence people.

He's PM and people are entitled to know his views, being neutral is a moral and political cop out

its a free vote and MPs need to make their own decision not be influenced by a leader

He was happy to lean on the Speaker last year

if you are suffering a progressive disease, travelling might become increasingly difficult which might then force people to travel earlier than they would want to

Assisted dying will become big business, from the lawyers to the purveyors of the death liquid. It wont be any cheaper than travel