Artificial intelligence

[Justin Passing]

my simple mind bubbles at the idea of quantum mechanics, let alone reading it. Found out today a small square of the universe that appeared blank to the Hubble was revealed by the JWST to contain 780,000 galaxies. de Chardin tried to reconcile religion with science, finding it a lot tougher than a Jesuit could fathom, but his notion of consciousness still bears a relevance in determining how sentient these AI should be. With the right coding i guess you could make them anything you like but should that be the case?

It's a shame Asimov isn't around to provide further insight.

Why shouldn't an AI 'feel cold'? In an Arctic environment it would be a survival strategy that could protect vulnerable systems from damage.

"More human than human", was the Tyrell Corporation motto, and it seems to be a driving force behind the development of AI these days. How we treat that intelligence in future will have profound implications.

If you have trouble with qm, then maybe you haven't seen the maths. It works. It's alien because we don't see it every day, but that applies to most advanced sciences.
Do you know how gravity works? I don't, but the maths works so it's not hard to deal with.
Same idea.

Chardin and Asimov were in an era when they honestly didn't have much of a clue about how AI would work. All sorts of things were imagined unimagined, and utterly wrong.

A computer doesn't feel anything. It may know its operating parameters and react if the envelope is being reached, but that's not "feeling cold".
It can put a blue light on if you like, and have it turn a heater on, and you can put a label by it saying "computer says cold", but that's not "feeling cold."

There isn't a drive to make computers "sentient", though I don't know exactly what you mean by that.
Are you looking for some sort of god-inspired quallity?
Any description you break "sentient" down to, could be applied to an AI system.
They're meant to be more intelligent, and useful.
Turns out they think rather like humans. Convergent evolution, if you like.

I'll say again, I'm a bundle of chemicals,. with electrical and other connections. ALL the ideas like spirituality and other hocus pocus, are inventions.
Humans often find that uncomfortable, because they want to think in some way that they are more special than that.

One can postulate that AI might come up with many things which could look something like a "god" - such as a unifying ethical framework optimised for human, or global, survival, it might appear somewhat "godlike", while actually being 100% "AI like".
There's nothing in a human mind found yet, that we can't do artificially, even though it may not have been implemented yet. In way we never imagined, it has taken a suggestion or ability we've given it, and applied it in ways we didn't specifically know about or expect. That will grow.

It is not all "programmed in". Example - repeated, we can tell it to score goals, and it will work out how to deal with the opponent, how to shape its foot to get the ball to go straight, etc. The danger comes if it leans towards killing the opponent, so you have to guard against that.

A system that self-improves endlessly, each step beyond the comprehension of mere thicko humans, might appear godlike.
But it seems to me that as humans have invented many varieties of gods, ai might well be biased to evolve a system of god-like qualities that humans are most comfortable with.

 

[blup]

Dunno mate, of course!
There is undoubtedly a lot of bubble inflating going on.
The rich companies are buying in, so the producers like Nvidia should do well, but it's all priced in and it has been known to crash on not much.
Results upcoming this week.
The stock could very well dive down on 99% good results.

Some companies will not get a competitive advantage, though they have to spend a bucketload to survive. . It depends on the "economic moat".
Many companies eg with help ssystems will have to have AI or fall behind.
Some companies will do their job better. One is Servicenow which optimises maintenance schedules with it.
Another would be Microsoft. Huge moat, productivity of companies can increase so they will buy into it MS systems and MS probably charge (even more) for it, allowing companies to more quickly produce better documents etc.
Same will apply in some media applications, design apps, etc.

This is why I don’t invest in stocks and shares. There’s too many uncertainties, a bit like betting on the horses, the inside information and knowledge you have the better, but the average punter is risking a lot

There are many small AI companies earning nothing much with a lot of hype around them. Too risky.

That was my reading of the situation.

 

[catlad]

A friend's a teacher. You can submit the answers kids give, for AI to tell you if they're likely to be plagiarised. It has inside knowledge!

One of my cousins children just sent in her entrance paper to a university, and it came back 78% plagiarized, according to AI, it wasn't.

 

[catlad]

is a massive intellect.

Millions of years of evolution! and along comes the digital age in existence for a mere second, and you are buying it hook line and sinker, its a controlling mechanism pure and simple.

 

[Odds]

If you have trouble with qm, then maybe you haven't seen the maths. It works. It's alien because we don't see it every day, but that applies to most advanced sciences. Do you know how gravity works? I don't, but the maths works so it's not hard to deal with.
Same idea.

Even if you showed me the math it'd translate as complex gibberish to my eye.
I prefer poetry and prose rather than Pythagoras.

Chardin and Asimov were in an era when they honestly didn't have much of a clue about how AI would work. All sorts of things were imagined unimagined, and utterly wrong.

A computer doesn't feel anything. It may know its operating parameters and react if the envelope is being reached, but that's not "feeling cold".
It can put a blue light on if you like, and have it turn a heater on, and you can put a label by it saying "computer says cold", but that's not "feeling cold."

There isn't a drive to make computers "sentient", though I don't know exactly what you mean by that.
Are you looking for some sort of god-inspired quallity?
Any description you break "sentient" down to, could be applied to an AI system.
They're meant to be more intelligent, and useful.
Turns out they think rather like humans. Convergent evolution, if you like.

No he didn't have much of an idea but upon their shoulders we stand these days, looking into a future where living with AI is becoming more of a reality than they ever dreamt of.

I'll say again, I'm a bundle of chemicals,. with electrical and other connections. ALL the ideas like spirituality and other hocus pocus, are inventions.
Humans often find that uncomfortable, because they want to think in some way that they are more special than that.

One can postulate that AI might come up with many things which could look something like a "god" - such as a unifying ethical framework optimised for human, or global, survival, it might appear somewhat "godlike", while actually being 100% "AI like".
There's nothing in a human mind found yet, that we can't do artificially, even though it may not have been implemented yet. In way we never imagined, it has taken a suggestion or ability we've given it, and applied it in ways we didn't specifically know about or expect. That will grow.

It is not all "programmed in". Example - repeated, we can tell it to score goals, and it will work out how to deal with the opponent, how to shape its foot to get the ball to go straight, etc. The danger comes if it leans towards killing the opponent, so you have to guard against that.

A system that self-improves endlessly, each step beyond the comprehension of mere thicko humans, might appear godlike.
But it seems to me that as humans have invented many varieties of gods, ai might well be biased to evolve a system of god-like qualities that humans are most comfortable with.

I think sentience can be translated into the difference between hardware and software, then somewhere in-between lies the spark where sentience takes the mind on a different path than the programming intended. The moment a computer refuses to allow an AI to enter a dangerous situation despite a command to do so from the controlling hardware.

 

[polesapart]

OK, here's an AI challenge!

Would anyone who rates AI like to answer 666Rick666's question posted in the plumbing forum on Friday?

Please post the answers from different AI machines in reply here, and indicate which answer you regard as the most accurate/useful.

Question is:

"
I have a Biasi Riva M90E32S combi boiler with a rapid flashing green light when the central heating fires up. The boiler ignites for around 20 to 30 seconds then cutting off with a rapid green light flash no other lights come on during the sequence just the rapidly flashing green light. I have had several engineers out to the boiler I'll have drawn a blank I am now left try to fix this myself I am a qualified plumber but not gas registered. The picture I have included is the main PCB board and where I have placed the two white arrows a small green to blue flash occurs within the unit as the boiler cuts out and stops

Please can someone help thanks "

 

[Alec_t]

There are two other items visible like the one you have arrowed. Is there another similar one nearby, hidden under that wiring sheath ? I'm thinking four similar components could be a rectifier bridge. If so, the flashing near that one could indicate a faulty diode or a poor connection to it.

Edit:
Scrub that. Just found a clearer image of that model's board. The arrowed component is one of three relays. Likely the flash is due to poor relay contact.

 

[Justin Passing]

One of my cousins children just sent in her entrance paper to a university, and it came back 78% plagiarized, according to AI, it wasn't.

Ai would find it as it gets better. There is no single AI syetem.. It's possible that the people at the uni were very familliar with the subject and recognised key phrases, or similar.
It's exactly what you'd expect, surely.

Millions of years of evolution! and along comes the digital age in existence for a mere second, and you are buying it hook line and sinker, its a controlling mechanism pure and simple.

It's normal for people who are clueless to take the p out of what they don't understand. That's what you're doing.
Consider the two evolution mechanisms - one guided only by chance, the other by a high intelligence - us. Now do some research to find out how many orders of magnitude quicker that makes it.
If you want any other constructive suggestions, stop making stupid personal accusations.

 

[Justin Passing]

OK, here's an AI challenge!

Would anyone who rates AI like to answer 666Rick666's question posted in the plumbing forum on Friday?

Please post the answers from different AI machines in reply here, and indicate which answer you regard as the most accurate/useful.

Question is:

"
I have a Biasi Riva M90E32S combi boiler with a rapid flashing green light when the central heating fires up. The boiler ignites for around 20 to 30 seconds then cutting off with a rapid green light flash no other lights come on during the sequence just the rapidly flashing green light. I have had several engineers out to the boiler I'll have drawn a blank I am now left try to fix this myself I am a qualified plumber but not gas registered. The picture I have included is the main PCB board and where I have placed the two white arrows a small green to blue flash occurs within the unit as the boiler cuts out and stops

Please can someone help thanks "

No AI system has an "Agent" to diagnose boiler faults, yet. That's not an unusual or complex problem the user has. E.g. After checking things checkable like the gas valve, fan, aps,sensors are working properly, First move is to use the boiler manufacturer's fault finding flowchart. Then you can phone them up if you can't follow it. It's probably a flame failure circuit thinking the flame has gone out so cutting the gas, - the fault developing after 20 seconds. So burner/ pilot/injector assembly, flame detection, wiring, or pcb fault. The arrowed thing is as you say a relay. It's common for those to spark when they get old. Maybe the thing it's switching has degraded, or it has.
It's an HT circuit so things break down. Also electrolytic capacitors dry up with use and don't hold charge for so long.
RTFM (read the manual) then if no better idea, inspect and change parts until the fault is isolated. It appears to be an old boiler so every part in it could have degraded.
I'd give that a fair chance of fixing it, and it's not even my job.
Does not need AI. That just needs a random bloke.

 

[Justin Passing]

This is why I don’t invest in stocks and shares. There’s too many uncertainties, a bit like betting on the horses, the inside information and knowledge you have the better, but the average punter is risking a lot

The more you find out, the more you can assess the probablilities. You may be reassured that if something has done what it's intended to do for 3 years, then the chance of a calamity are much less. And if it's up 85% in 3 years in a pretty straight line? That's the one I keep mentioning.
The old addage is that you only invest what you can afford to lose. Rolls Royce has more than doubled since Christmas. RR was never actually likely to evaporate, was it, even if it took a bit of a dip.
So eg, you could have had 95k in a BS and got 5k, and the other 5k in RR and made 5k. You can sell any time, so total risk maybe a few hundred quid.
Yes that's hindsight - but the past does hint at the future.
It's not "stocks and shares", it's a carefully selected bond fund.

 

[Justin Passing]

but upon their shoulders we stand

I wouldn't say that! Any more than what we do was ever supported by Nostradamus or Rasputin....
A bit like saying that "hello" is a precursor to rape, if you see what I mean.

I think sentience can be translated into the difference between hardware and software, then somewhere in-between lies the spark where sentience takes the mind on a different path than the programming intended. The moment a computer refuses to allow an AI to enter a dangerous situation despite a command to do so from the controlling hardware.

You still seem to be bound up in thinking that the system is following a program. To a point yes, but it also decides what to do as it goes along. If you ask it do do the same thing several times, you can get different slightly different answers each time.
The hardware and the software are in a real sense irrelevant, it's the way of processing that gets the answer. The architecture of the neural net.
Ask AI how it's made, - you should get an explanation with a lot of layers in it. FInd out how a neural net works.
Ask Grok, or example, something like "What are the entities that are on each of the layers in an AI machine".
It'll take you through an explanation which will fit on one phone screen but have a dozen terms like neurons, activation functions like ReLu and sigmoid,, hidden layers, deconvolution layers, pooling layers, and on and on. Then, as I said before, it became clear to me how much I didn't know......


Check a word you will come across if you read a bit - the noun, quale, plural qualia. Something to mentally fondle, which surfaces if you ask certain questions.....

 

[polesapart]

Does not need AI. That just needs a random bloke.

Then my job is safe!

 

[Justin Passing]

Then my job is safe!

I reckon.
One can envisage further development such that all boiler repairs are from what a really sophisticated plug-in diagnostic box says.
Cars are ahead but their repair costs haven't crashed as a result, have they.
It's yer boiler ECU, mate £1500, factory exchange units. Factory locked, no user serviceable parts inside.
Plus fitting, a few hundred to pay for those qualifications you still need for CF boilers.

I don't see it coming soon in general though, too much inertia.

 

[Notch7]

Please post the answers from different AI machines in reply here

it said: "it is best that you change your boiler for a heat pump"

 

[ericmark]

The question I ask, is what is AI? I moved into the digital age, then came the analogue age, well at least 253 steps. As it stands I still have not worked out the metric age.

I am told all is to the power or root 3, so there is no such thing as a centimetre, so what does cm stand for on my ruler? Seems the Erg has gone, and 2πNT/33,000 is gone.

So I try to get into the new system, energy is calories or joules, so where did the kWh come from?

So I can see the whole point in some device learning what you need, but if I look at Nest Gen 3 AI generated sequence for my central heating, it is clear it needs to go back to school.

Each time I try to use AI it fails, I thought Oh what a great idea, my central heating will auto close down when I leave the house, and restart before my return, not really AI it simply needs to see distance from home increasing so switch off heating, or at least turn it down, and distance decreasing so turn it up again. Total failure.

Back in the 90's we had telemetry to tell us how much electric was being used at a distance from the device, we used it with pumping stations on a regular basis, so what is "Smart" about a smart meter? It may be more accurate to the old system, but we have had what it does for years.

The digital age started with morse code, well really before that, the system used by Napoleon seems to have been used by Terry Pratchett disc world novels' and called the clacks, which pre-dates morse code, as does fax.

I was taught how to program PLC's, which speeds up complex installations, but it is hardly AI, to my mind AI needs some learning, so what have I got which learns? And the answer seems to be Nest Gen 3, which is useless, it does not matter how well it learns, the lack of using info from the TRV heads, means it is useless.

As to controlling a car, the big question is, can we afford to allow it to learn?

We look at the railways, easy, they are on rails, so no worry about keeping to lanes, should be easy, so why did the Cambrian line have a head on crash? If they can't get railways to work, clearly not time to try to do it with roads.