• Looking for a smarter way to manage your heating this winter? We’ve been testing the new Aqara Radiator Thermostat W600 to see how quiet, accurate and easy it is to use around the home. Click here read our review.

Tax reform?

JohnD

JohnD

Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
96,646
Reaction score
8,028
Location
South
Country
Cook Islands
In the UK, most wealth is held in the firm of pension funds and real estate.

If the nation needs public services, without increasing the national debt further towards unaffordable infinity, it needs to raise income. You can't get much by trying to tax the poor.

Billionaire oligarchs and nondom tax-dodgers like to buy palatial homes and country estates here.

An article in the FT commented:

"UK council tax is based on 1991 property valuations, grouped into eight price bands and paid by tenants. It is probably the world’s most unfair property tax: the poorest pay the highest tax as a percentage of property value and the richest the least. It is also unfair regionally. The tax revenue raised by a home in the top band is around £4,500 in Nottingham but just £1,060 in Westminster."

FT.com


Hmmmmm, room for improvement, I think.
 
In other news,


"Sam Fleming and George Parker in London

Published AUG 18 2025
Updated AUG 18 2025, 17:57

Rachel Reeves has ordered Treasury officials to examine reforms to the UK’s system of property taxation as she seeks ways to raise cash and boost the economy, according to people familiar with the discussions. "

FT.com
 
I'm confident if changes are required, they'll be implemented around 2035 - 2040.
 
On a totally unrelated topic:

"Wealthy UAE residents look to snap up prime London property​

Market slump and new tax-free regime have made UK capital a more attractive destination, experts say"

Middle East family offices and wealthy individuals have invested £245mn in UK commercial real estate so far this year, compared with just £25mn for all of 2024, according to Knight Frank"



Julie Steinberg, Josh Spero and George Parker in London
Published AUG 25 2025

FT.com
 
JohnD said:
In the UK, most wealth is held in the firm of pension funds and real estate.

If the nation needs public services, without increasing the national debt further towards unaffordable infinity, it needs to raise income. You can't get much by trying to tax the poor.

Billionaire oligarchs and nondom tax-dodgers like to buy palatial homes and country estates here.

An article in the FT commented:

"UK council tax is based on 1991 property valuations, grouped into eight price bands and paid by tenants. It is probably the world’s most unfair property tax: the poorest pay the highest tax as a percentage of property value and the richest the least. It is also unfair regionally. The tax revenue raised by a home in the top band is around £4,500 in Nottingham but just £1,060 in Westminster."

FT.com


Hmmmmm, room for improvement, I think.
Click to expand...

Tax the rich and if that doesn't work Tax them more.

First of all why should hard working people be taxed more for example owning a country estate? The upkeep of such can equate to a considerable sum, it's all PERCENTAGES. Just like PERCENTAGES used when taxing, however, it seems some people just dont understand PERCENTAGES and believe 'rich' people should pay a higher PERCENTAGE, anyone getting the message here. Its all relative, the more you earn the more you pay as a PERCENTAGE in tax already, which is why i find it utterly absurd you should pay an even higher percentage, the clue is in the name.

How much did we spaff up the wall to the likes of Covid how much are we spending a day housing imigrants, how much is wasted on Government quangos and 'foreign initiatives for diplomatic cause' I would say that's the main issue, the house is rotten to the core. Its a bit like the NHS throwing more money at it can help but the main issue is how it's managed, rotten to the core.

The other problem is, how immature and fcked up our Parliament really is, everyone is in it for themselves, zero accountability, even if someone comes up with a good idea, especially if its from 'the opposition' it will never be agreed or even considered, 'thats a weakness to listen to the opposition and agree'.

You will also find 'the rich' pay 55/60p in the pound.

Lets take this as an example

Person on 25k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £3,480
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 0.7 days per week

Person on 100k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £31,443
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 1.6 days per week

I gather you think that's unfair and the hard working rich should pay even more? Despite a 4x salary they have to work over the double amount of time a week so a month over 8days for the 'rich' person just to pay their taxes and NI.

Why is that fair? Have you worked hard Jon? So after making a considerably larger contribution to the treasury these people should now pay even more?
If they are avoiding their taxes like our Angela etc, that's a different story they absolutely should be paying them.
 
festive said:
Why is that fair?
Click to expand...
a bit more tax on a wealthy person might mean they have to buy a 70 foot luxury yacht instead of an 80 foot yacht

a bit more tax on a person on min wage might mean they have to choose between eating and heating


Festive says its not fair a wealthy person might have to cut back a tiny bit on luxuries
 
festive said:
Tax the rich and if that doesn't work Tax them more.

First of all why should hard working people be taxed more for example owning a country estate? The upkeep of such can equate to a considerable sum, it's all PERCENTAGES. Just like PERCENTAGES used when taxing, however, it seems some people just dont understand PERCENTAGES and believe 'rich' people should pay a higher PERCENTAGE, anyone getting the message here. Its all relative, the more you earn the more you pay as a PERCENTAGE in tax already, which is why i find it utterly absurd you should pay an even higher percentage, the clue is in the name.

How much did we spaff up the wall to the likes of Covid how much are we spending a day housing imigrants, how much is wasted on Government quangos and 'foreign initiatives for diplomatic cause' I would say that's the main issue, the house is rotten to the core. Its a bit like the NHS throwing more money at it can help but the main issue is how it's managed, rotten to the core.

The other problem is, how immature and fcked up our Parliament really is, everyone is in it for themselves, zero accountability, even if someone comes up with a good idea, especially if its from 'the opposition' it will never be agreed or even considered, 'thats a weakness to listen to the opposition and agree'.

You will also find 'the rich' pay 55/60p in the pound.

Lets take this as an example

Person on 25k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £3,480
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 0.7 days per week

Person on 100k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £31,443
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 1.6 days per week

I gather you think that's unfair and the hard working rich should pay even more? Despite a 4x salary they have to work over the double amount of time a week so a month over 8days for the 'rich' person just to pay their taxes and NI.

Why is that fair? Have you worked hard Jon? So after making a considerably larger contribution to the treasury these people should now pay even more?
If they are avoiding their taxes like our Angela etc, that's a different story they absolutely should be paying them.
Click to expand...
Festive ignores the difference between tax on wages and tax on assets
 
festive said:
You will also find 'the rich' pay 55/60p in the pound.

Lets take this as an example

Person on 25k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £3,480
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 0.7 days per week

Person on 100k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £31,443
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 1.6 days per week

I gather you think that's unfair and the hard working rich should pay even more? Despite a 4x salary they have to work over the double amount of time a week so a month over 8days for the 'rich' person just to pay their taxes and NI.

Why is that fair? Have you worked hard Jon? So after making a considerably larger contribution to the treasury these people should now pay even more?
If they are avoiding their taxes like our Angela etc, that's a different story they absolutely should be paying them.
Click to expand...
nailed it.
 
festive said:
Tax the rich and if that doesn't work Tax them more.

First of all why should hard working people be taxed more for example owning a country estate? The upkeep of such can equate to a considerable sum, it's all PERCENTAGES. Just like PERCENTAGES used when taxing, however, it seems some people just dont understand PERCENTAGES and believe 'rich' people should pay a higher PERCENTAGE, anyone getting the message here. Its all relative, the more you earn the more you pay as a PERCENTAGE in tax already, which is why i find it utterly absurd you should pay an even higher percentage, the clue is in the name.

How much did we spaff up the wall to the likes of Covid how much are we spending a day housing imigrants, how much is wasted on Government quangos and 'foreign initiatives for diplomatic cause' I would say that's the main issue, the house is rotten to the core. Its a bit like the NHS throwing more money at it can help but the main issue is how it's managed, rotten to the core.

The other problem is, how immature and fcked up our Parliament really is, everyone is in it for themselves, zero accountability, even if someone comes up with a good idea, especially if its from 'the opposition' it will never be agreed or even considered, 'thats a weakness to listen to the opposition and agree'.

You will also find 'the rich' pay 55/60p in the pound.

Lets take this as an example

Person on 25k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £3,480
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 0.7 days per week

Person on 100k/year
Total contribution in tax/ni £31,443
Time working for nothing a week to just pay tax/NI : 1.6 days per week

I gather you think that's unfair and the hard working rich should pay even more? Despite a 4x salary they have to work over the double amount of time a week so a month over 8days for the 'rich' person just to pay their taxes and NI.

Why is that fair? Have you worked hard Jon? So after making a considerably larger contribution to the treasury these people should now pay even more?
If they are avoiding their taxes like our Angela etc, that's a different story they absolutely should be paying them.
Click to expand...

Have you taken into account all taxes and duties when working out these figures.

The problem we have now is that the spread of wealth and income is becoming more unequal. We need tax revenue to pay for the things the voters want. It is only logical that those who have the most will have to increase their contribution still further, because they are the ones who have increased their share of the available money.
 
The bigger problem, and politically more acceptable to taxpayers for Gov to resolve is- collection. Tax is not being efficiently collected from anyone other than PAYE workers who have no hiding place. Ideas for discussion:

Stop IHT avoidance via trusts etc. IHT will affect <5% of deaths in uk. That's 'just-above-poor' people It should be way more.
Tax people who take stock options to reduce income tax liability. Make it all 'income'
1% tax on all assets other than main residence over £1 million. Gawd knows how...
Heavily tax owners of second/subsequent homes over £1 million value. Not buy to lets, oligarchs with homes everywhere.
Get amongst the Duke of Westminster and the like.

Here all week folks, I have more.
 
Notch7 said:
Festive ignores the difference between tax on wages and tax on assets
Click to expand...

The difference is that rich people own the assets, and poor people struggle to get by on their wages.
 
Festive is aware that "wages" are, for most people, taxed, and "wealth," not.

Bear in mind that the poor are unlikely to own property, and will generally have zero or tiny pension funds.

The opposite is true of the rich.

In other news,


Download as PDF

1.Main points​

In the period April 2020 to March 2022:
  • Median household wealth in Great Britain was £293,700.
  • The wealthiest 10% of households had household wealth of £1,200,500 or more, while the least wealthy 10% had £16,500 or less.
  • Median household wealth varied by region, with the largest difference seen between the South East (£489,800) and the North East (£179,900).
  • Net property wealth made up the largest proportion of household wealth (40%), followed by private pension wealth (35%), while net financial wealth (14%) and physical wealth (10%) made up much smaller proportions.
 
If changing Council tax was that easy, it would have been done years ago - and the reason it hasn’t been done because it’ll upset too many of the electorate.

They just need to increase income tax by 1p in the pound, remove the upper limit for NI, remove the taper for the personal allowance above £100k, make the 40% tax point £80k, the 45% tax point £125k

And levy NI on all income INCLUDING pensioners above the personal allowance
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top