why is loss of freedom of movement in eu seen as a big deal

[motorbiking]

It's clearly something that you don't understand. You've quoted some TLAs and made up some figures to suggest that £200,000 is sufficient to generate the kind of additional income over and above the state pension to allow someone to meet the income criteria to migrate to France, Spain, Greece, etc.
The figures don't stack up.
Growth is about 10% and dividends are only about 1.5%.


I've already shown that about £500,000 capital would be needed to supplement a pensioner's income to required levels. To reach that sum over 10 years would require a monthly saving of about £3,000 per month over 10 years.
Something all pensioners could aspire to, you think?


Now that your nonsense has been exposed yet again, you're claiming others don't understand, because you're unable to substantiate your claims.

An 80% growth over the last 5 years. Gives you the CAGR to generate the required income from the £200k pot. Dividend yield is irrelevant. Capital growth gives you the income.

 

[Mottie]

I never tire of seeing Mottie running down the road with a scaffold pole.

It was when I was watching that back that I noticed what a lovely, bouncy pair of tits I had.

 

[King Billy]

An 80% growth over the last 5 years. Gives you the CAGR to generate the required income from the £200k pot. Dividend yield is irrelevant. Capital growth gives you the income.

You make it all sound so easily achievable, it's not.
First of all you need this pot of £200,000. Only about 3% of UK adults have such savings. Yes, you can generate it with a sale of your house, if you own it.....
The average historical rate has been between 10 and 10.7%. So a rate of 12.5% is highly desirable, but unachievable.
To get near to a 10.4% the £200,000 would have to be invested into high growth assets, which invariably means high risk assets.
Even at 10.4% the growth rate, taken as income, would only yield about £20,000 per year, rather short of a required £25,000, and will never increase with inflation.
And as your pot never grows, it will always be exposed to the high risks endemic in such high risk assets. So invariably your "income" is never dependable.
In addition, you would need to either remain as a UK taxpayer, in which case your income would be subject to the usual taxes, Income tax or CGT, with the costs associated with maintaining that residency,
or register for tax in your chosen country, in which case you would still be subject to income tax or CGT. And many other EU countries impose higher Income Tax and CGT than UK. Also their 'bands' tend to be lower than UK, so it's easy to be subjected to a higher tax band in European countries.
You would also probably need an accountant to complete your tax submission. And you still need Health Insurance, possibly between £50 to £100 per month due to your age.
All these aspects need to be accounted for, and eat into your risky "income".

It isn't as easy as you make it sound.
None of this was necessary pre-Brexit.

 

[motorbiking]

You make it all sound so easily achievable, it's not.
First of all you need this pot of £200,000. Only about 3% of UK adults have such savings. Yes, you can generate it with a sale of your house, if you own it.....
The average historical rate has been between 10 and 10.7%. So a rate of 12.5% is highly desirable, but unachievable.
To get near to a 10.4% the £200,000 would have to be invested into high growth assets, which invariably means high risk assets.
Even at 10.4% the growth rate, taken as income, would only yield about £20,000 per year, rather short of a required £25,000, and will never increase with inflation.
And as your pot never grows, it will always be exposed to the high risks endemic in such high risk assets. So invariably your "income" is never dependable.

Nothing much to disagree with so far, as I said 200k ish, is broadly sufficient. VWRP (the same as VWRL with dividends reinvested) has the below performance:

• 1-Year Return: +29.20%
• 3-Year CAGR +17.74%
• 5-Year CAGR: +12.53%
• Since Inception CAGR: ~12.08%

The exam question is therefore met. Whether it is sustainable, sensible, realistic etc. is irrelevant. The rules are clear.

In addition, you would need to either remain as a UK taxpayer, in which case your income would be subject to the usual taxes, Income tax or CGT, with the costs associated with maintaining that residency,

Obviously you'd be targeting those with low or zero CGT rates. Greece for example has a flat 7% rate (all income) for qualifying retirees and CGT of zero for non professional investors.

or register for tax in your chosen country, in which case you would still be subject to income tax or CGT. And many other EU countries impose higher Income Tax and CGT than UK. Also their 'bands' tend to be lower than UK, so it's easy to be subjected to a higher tax band in European countries.

see above - they are a page a head of you.

You would also probably need an accountant to complete your tax submission. And you still need Health Insurance, possibly between £50 to £100 per month due to your age.
All these aspects need to be accounted for, and eat into your risky "income".

It isn't as easy as you make it sound.

Its not complex, in just a few posts back and forth, you have increased your knowledge and there are plenty of tools that help.

None of this was necessary pre-Brexit.

Citizens with little to no means to support themselves should not be able emigrate to another country to burden them without having made any contribution. This is why free movement is bonkers.

 

[King Billy]

Nothing much to disagree with so far, as I said 200k ish, is broadly sufficient. VWRP (the same as VWRL with dividends reinvested) has the below performance:

• 1-Year Return: +29.20%
• 3-Year CAGR +17.74%
• 5-Year CAGR: +12.53%
• Since Inception CAGR: ~12.08%

Show us the source of your figures.
Figures of your imagination don't count in the real world.

The exam question is therefore met. Whether it is sustainable, sensible, realistic etc. is irrelevant. The rules are clear.

Meeting the criteria was not necessary pre-Brexit.

Obviously you'd be targeting those with low or zero CGT rates. Greece for example has a flat 7% rate (all income) for qualifying retirees and CGT of zero for non professional investors.

So Greece, is an exception for taxes, but not the most desirable for pensioners. Post Brexit a comprehensive private medical insurance is required, between £250 and £500 per month, and secured accommodation, i.e. owned property. That'll knock a dent in that "income from growth".

see above - they are a page a head of you.

As above, and Greece is not particularly attractive for UK pensioners.

Its not complex,

For pensioners who have never had the need to employ an accountant before?

in just a few posts back and forth, you have increased your knowledge and there are plenty of tools that help.

All totally unnecessary pre Brexit.

Citizens with little to no means to support themselves should not be able emigrate to another country to burden them without having made any contribution. This is why free movement is bonkers.

That's your ideology imposing and restricting other's life choices.
You appear to be content with that.

 

[motorbiking]

Show us the source of your figures.
Figures of your imagination don't count in the real world.

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation Price and Performance | IE00BK5BQT80 | Fidelity

Latest price and performance data for Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation (IE00BK5BQT80) plus portfolio overview, dividend information, expert insights and more

www.fidelity.co.uk

Not hard to find.

Google. VWRP CAGR. Click AI mode, click expand.

So Greece, is an exception for taxes, but not the most desirable for pensioners. Post Brexit a comprehensive private medical insurance is required, between £250 and £500 per month, and secured accommodation, i.e. owned property. That'll knock a dent in that "income from growth".



As above, and Greece is not particularly attractive for UK pensioners.



For pensioners who have never had the need to employ an accountant before?


All totally unnecessary pre Brexit.



That's your ideology imposing and restricting other's life choices.
You appear to be content with that.

Plenty of nice places to live in the EU with similar tax treatment. I’ve proved my point, feel free to change direction.

It’s not ideology. It would not be good for Britain if Greek pensioners on the basic pension decided to move to the U.K. they would be a burden on the state. The same applies to British pensioners on Greece.

 

[King Billy]

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation Price and Performance | IE00BK5BQT80 | Fidelity

Latest price and performance data for Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF USD Accumulation (IE00BK5BQT80) plus portfolio overview, dividend information, expert insights and more

www.fidelity.co.uk

Not hard to find.

Google. VWRP CAGR. Click AI mode, click expand.

So they'd need to plan at least 5 years prior to retirment and migration, with that specific intention in mind,, have £200,000 in the bank to invest, and employ an accountant to invest their life savings, for highest risk investments.
If it goes tits up, the pensioners are left destitute, in a foreign country
I've already shown that only about 3% of adults (all adults) have £200,000 savings to play with.
None of this was necessary pre Brexit.

Plenty of nice places to live in the EU with similar tax treatment.

None in the most popular regions. Most pensioners want to relocate to a comfortable place, with future friendship prospects in mind, not commence a life-changing adventure.
They could prior to Brexit without much planning or concerns.

I’ve proved my point, feel free to change direction.

You've proven how it's only available now, post Brexit, for those lucky few (about 3%) who have £200,000 available, are prepared to relocate to eastern Europe or Greece in a life-changing adventure, and invest their hard-earned savings in the highest risk investments.

It’s not ideology.

Of course it's ideology:

This is why free movement is bonkers.

Free movement is a political policy, i.e. an ideology.

It would not be good for Britain if Greek pensioners on the basic pension decided to move to the U.K. they would be a burden on the state.

Not if their medical care was paid for by Greece, as was the case for UK expats in Greece, pre Brexit.

The same applies to British pensioners on Greece.

Now post Brexit, UK expats to Greece need a comprehensive medical insurance costing £3000 to £6000 per year.
A lump sum of £200,000, a secure accommodation, to employ an accountant, and meet the criteria for a visa.
And you think it's as easy now as Pre Brexit.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Well I’ve started putting a little winky face

I'd have the same face too if I had a little winky.

 

[motorbiking]

If you realise the capital growth each year because you need it as income, you don't get any compound growth.

But you do tick the box.

 

[motorbiking]

So they'd need to plan at least 5 years prior to retirment and migration, with that specific intention in mind,, have £200,000 in the bank to invest, and employ an accountant to invest their life savings, for highest risk investments.
If it goes tits up, the pensioners are left destitute, in a foreign country
I've already shown that only about 3% of adults (all adults) have £200,000 savings to play with.
None of this was necessary pre Brexit.


None in the most popular regions. Most pensioners want to relocate to a comfortable place, with future friendship prospects in mind, not commence a life-changing adventure.
They could prior to Brexit without much planning or concerns.


You've proven how it's only available now, post Brexit, for those lucky few (about 3%) who have £200,000 available, are prepared to relocate to eastern Europe or Greece in a life-changing adventure, and invest their hard-earned savings in the highest risk investments.


Of course it's ideology:

Free movement is a political policy, i.e. an ideology.


Not if their medical care was paid for by Greece, as was the case for UK expats in Greece, pre Brexit.


Now post Brexit, UK expats to Greece need a comprehensive medical insurance costing £3000 to £6000 per year.
A lump sum of £200,000, a secure accommodation, to employ an accountant, and meet the criteria for a visa.
And you think it's as easy now as Pre Brexit.

Good job. Keeps the net benefiters out.

Nobody should have a right to suck the resources of a foreign country they have not contributed to.

 

[King Billy]

Good job. Keeps the net benefiters out.

Nobody should have a right to suck the resources of a foreign country they have not contributed to.

Pensioners could live comfortably on their pension in many EU countries pre Brexit.
Any medical treatment would be paid by UK.
And they would be helping to sustain small rural communities.

 

[King Billy]

If you realise the capital growth each year because you need it as income, you don't get any compound growth.

Excellent point, which I'd overlooked.
Thanks.

 

[King Billy]

But you do tick the box.

Which was unnecessary pre Brexit.
And post Brexit you need that income to fund your medical insurance.

 

[motorbiking]

Pensioners could live comfortably on their pension in many EU countries pre Brexit.
Any medical treatment would be paid by UK.
And they would be helping to sustain small rural communities.

At the U.K. tax payers expense.

Glad that door is closed.

Meanwhile zero CGT, 7% income tax and private medical insurance would save me 100s of thousands.

 

[King Billy]

At the U.K. tax payers expense.

How so? They're entitled to their pension and to spend it as and where they think fit.

Glad that door is closed.

But you've just spent pages telling us how it's not closed.

Meanwhile zero CGT, 7% income tax and private medical insurance would save me 100s of thousands.

So your income tax and private medical insurance costs you hundreds of thousands?
What are you a stunt man for Superman?