why is loss of freedom of movement in eu seen as a big deal

[King Billy]

In this case euros

Price or cost is different to value.
Migrating to the sun has far more value than the cost of the move.

 

[motorbiking]

Only for those with a pension pot.
Pre Brexit, pensioners without any pension pot were free to migrate to the sun.
An option that with your vote for Brexit you have helped to deny them.

it wouldn’t be reasonable to stop the EUs net benefiters moving to the U.K. while arguing ours should be free to drain other states.

It’s only a small minority who can’t hit the gates.

 

[motorbiking]

Price or cost is different to value.
Migrating to the sun has far more value than the cost of the move.

You need money to live. You can earn it and pay your way or you can expect others to.

 

[motorbiking]

Imagine being married to that.

You could get an apartment together in Benidorm.

 

[motorbiking]

Plant some pampas grass outside to keep the wives happy.

 

[King Billy]

it wouldn’t be reasonable to stop the EUs net benefiters moving to the U.K. while arguing ours should be free to drain other states.

It’s only a small minority who can’t hit the gates.

Who and how are UK pensioners a drain on the EU states that they retire to?

If there were any EU pensioners retiring to UK (and as far as I know, there aren't any) and becoming a drain on UK, please present any cases and data that you have to support your claims.

EU countries make their own rules about support provided to foreigners taking up residency.

It’s only a small minority who can’t hit the gates.

The government available data disagrees with you, unsurprisingly.
There are an estimated 1.6 million to 1.7 million people (out of 13,000,000 pensioners) in the UK with pension wealth of more than pounds 200,000. This figure encompasses both active savers approaching retirement and current pensioners.

 

[King Billy]

You need money to live. You can earn it and pay your way or you can expect others to.

That illustrates your me, me, me attitude to society, and demonstrates how your self-centred approach dominates your political ideology.

In the UK, over 8 million people of working age (around 20%) have a work-limiting health condition that restricts the type or amount of work they can do. Of this group, over 2.8 million people are officially economically inactive due to long-term sickness.

 

[motorbiking]

Who and how are UK pensioners a drain on the EU states that they retire to?

If there were any EU pensioners retiring to UK (and as far as I know, there aren't any) and becoming a drain on UK, please present any cases and data that you have to support your claims.

EU countries make their own rules about support provided to foreigners taking up residency.


The government available data disagrees with you, unsurprisingly.
There are an estimated 1.6 million to 1.7 million people (out of 13,000,000 pensioners) in the UK with pension wealth of more than pounds 200,000. This figure encompasses both active savers approaching retirement and current pensioners.

As you've already been told and continue to ignore. The exam question is not limited to your private pension pot. You've been provided with the facts. You want to pretend that 70%+ of those at retirement age do not have assets and income to tick the exam question. The fact is they do.

If you look at your last two posts, its easy to see why having a minimum bar, is necessary and benefits society.

Can you imagine the impact on the UK, if the top 10% of tax payers left and were replaced with immigrants who fall in to the bottom 10%?

Income tax recipients would fall 60% ~£200bn - what impact would that have on public services?

 

[King Billy]

As you've already been told and continue to ignore. The exam question is not limited to your private pension pot.

Are you referring to the state pension, or the wad of notes stuffed under the matress?

You've been provided with the facts. You want to pretend that 70%+ of those at retirement age do not have assets and income to tick the exam question. The fact is they do.

But the government's figures prove your "facts" to be wrong.

If you look at your last two posts, its easy to see why having a minimum bar, is necessary and benefits society.

But the bar isn't minimum, it prevents the majority of pensioners retiring to the country of their choice.
If there was no bar, pensioners could enjoy their retirement in the sun.

Can you imagine the impact on the UK, if the top 10% of tax payers left and were replaced with immigrants who fall in to the bottom 10%?

But the EU pensioners showed no indication of wanting to retire to UK, when they could.
And the young EU workers came to work.
Show us any data that suggests poor EU citizens migrated to UK and became a drain on UK.

Income tax recipients would fall 60% ~£200bn - what impact would that have on public services?

Those wealthy UK taxpayers can leave if they want to, they can afford the specific visas that allows them to. Have they left?

So your concern is based on your fantasy.

 

[motorbiking]

Are you referring to the state pension, or the wad of notes stuffed under the matress?

All assets: https://social-mobility.data.gov.uk/mobility_outcomes/wealth/level_of_wealth/latest

But the government's figures prove your "facts" to be wrong.

See above

But the bar isn't minimum, it prevents the majority of pensioners retiring to the country of their choice.
If there was no bar, pensioners could enjoy their retirement in the sun.

nope 20-30%

But the EU pensioners showed no indication of wanting to retire to UK, when they could.

irrelevant

And the young EU workers came to work.

and now we have record youth unemployment

Show us any data that suggests poor EU citizens migrated to UK and became a drain on UK.

here are 700,000 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx5pw8pwg5o

Those wealthy UK taxpayers can leave if they want to, they can afford the specific visas that allows them to. Have they left?

A lot have.

So your concern is based on your fantasy.

the only fantasy is your assertion that the majority of UK people at, or around retirement age, cannot leverage the many incentives specifically designed to encourage them.

 

[King Billy]

All assets: https://social-mobility.data.gov.uk/mobility_outcomes/wealth/level_of_wealth/latest

Pre Brexit pensioners didn't need to realise their wealth by cashing it all in to qualify for the criteria.
Would you be prepared to realise al your wealth in order to meet the criteria.

See above

As I've explained, average anything is skewed by outliers. A couple of billionaires and the average wealth is not a worthy metric.

nope 20-30%

I suggest you rework your Maths.

an estimated 200,000 to 250,000 British retirees currently meet the various national residency pathways.
of 13,000,000, 250,000 is about just 2%. Worse than I thought.

irrelevant

Of course it's relevant. Your ideology is based on those non-existent EU pensioners retiring to UK and becoming a drain on the UK.

and now we have record youth unemployment

Yes, the Brexit disadvantages are starting to bite, causing an overall slowdown of business.
But the typical industries that was attractive to EU workers still have vacancies.

The demand for staff in care and hospitality remains high, especially in London. Many employers are even willing to train candidates without previous experience if they possess the right personality and attitude.

Maybe the indigenous unemployed don't have the right attitude or personality.

here are 700,000 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx5pw8pwg5o

So they were resident in UK for over 5 years.

including around 700,000 EU citizens who arrived in the UK before Brexit and have the right to live and work in the UK.
The Department for Work and Pensions has said most foreign nationals can claim only after five years residency,
83.6% of whom were British and Irish nationals.

So clearly not pensioners then.
And the vast majority were Indigenous UK or Irish.
And Brexit has protected them, whereas pre Brexit the UK could have deported them.

Before Brexit, the UK could and did deport EU citizens who could not support themselves,

Now UK cannot deport them.

Those with Settled Status (Indefinite Leave to Remain): Cannot be deported simply for being unable to support themselves.

Own goal to Brexit.

A lot have.

Not for the reasons you suggest:

Wealthy individuals migrate abroad primarilyt o protect and diversify their assets, minimize their tax liabilities, and secure long-term geopolitical stability. Rather than just seeking luxury lifestyles, high-net-worth individuals treat their residency as a strategic asset to hedge against economic uncertainty and unpredictable government regulations.

the only fantasy is you assertion that the majority of UK people at, or around retirement age, cannot leverage the many incentives specifically designed to encourage them.

I provided the government's own figures which you claim are incorrect, merely because you don't agree with them.

The government available data disagrees with you, unsurprisingly.
There are an estimated 1.6 million to 1.7 million people (out of 13,000,000 pensioners) in the UK with pension wealth of more than pounds 200,000. This figure encompasses both active savers approaching retirement and current pensioners.

You claimed they had some other wealth which they would have to realise in order to meet the criteria, a realisation not needed pre Brexit.

 

[motorbiking]

Pre Brexit pensioners didn't need to realise their wealth by cashing it all in to qualify for the criteria.

we know - its been said at least a dozen times - its a good thing that people need to be able to support themselves if they are going to live abroad.

Would you be prepared to realise al your wealth in order to meet the criteria.

To live the dream? why not YOLO. But the fact is you don't need to. Rent the home out, move some cash to investments, take the tax free lump and re-invest and 70+% can make it work.

As I've explained, average anything is skewed by outliers. A couple of billionaires and the average wealth is not a worthy metric.

I'm sure your favourite AI can help you with the data.

I suggest you rework your Maths.

oh dear you posted a link that doesn't state what you claim. bad himmy, resorting to fibs because he lost the argument.. again.

Of course it's relevant. Your ideology is based on those non-existent EU pensioners retiring to UK and becoming a drain on the UK.

We already have 700,000 claiming benefits.

Yes, the Brexit disadvantages are starting to bite, causing an overall slowdown of business.

meanwhile the UK economy rose from rank 7 to 5,

But the typical industries that was attractive to EU workers still have vacancies.

great - we have record unemployment.

Maybe the indigenous unemployed don't have the right attitude or personality.

lets send them to live in Spain and make them someone else's problem.

So they were resident in UK for over 5 years.

So clearly not pensioners then.

do you think age will improve their earning potential?

And the vast majority were Indigenous UK or Irish.
And Brexit has protected them, whereas pre Brexit the UK could have deported them.

Now UK cannot deport them.

Own goal to Brexit.


Not for the reasons you suggest:



I provided the government's own figures which you claim are incorrect, merely because you don't agree with them.

You are trying to exclude eligible wealth because it doesn't suit your narrative.

You claimed they had some other wealth which they would have to realise in order to meet the criteria, a realisation not needed pre Brexit.

if only there was a way to generate an income from an asset without selling it.. maybe we could call it... I dunno... renting it out?

 

[King Billy]

we know - its been said at least a dozen times - its a good thing that people need to be able to support themselves if they are going to live abroad.

Those that struggled, usually return to UK anyway, so they're not a drain on their adopted country, they become a drain on UK, which makes your ideology obsolete. Your ideology is based on anyone not being a drain on UK.

To live the dream? why not YOLO. But the fact is you don't need to. Rent the home out, move some cash to investments, take the tax free lump and re-invest and 70+% can make it work.

So you wouldn't realise all your wealth to migrate to the sun.
Most pensioners have no other choice now., realise all their wealth to meet the criteria, or don't go.

I'm sure your favourite AI can help you with the data.

Only if it exists. I'm guessing it doesn't otherwise you would have posted it.

The data I posted is reasonably accurate and relevant:

An estimated 200,000 to 250,000 British retirees currently live across Europe. With over 1.1 million UK pensioners residing overseas globally, this demographic relies on targeted national pathways, such as European retirement visas, digital nomad programs, or bilateral agreements, to settle abroad.

We already have 700,000 claiming benefits.

They're not pensioners.
UC is for people of working age.
Any EU pensioner receiving support from UK would receive Pension Credit.
"oh dear you posted a link that doesn't state what you claim. bad mbk, resorting to fibs because he lost the argument.. again."

meanwhile the UK economy rose from rank 7 to 5,

Measured in gross GDP, which fluctuates frequently. But GDP per capita puts UK in 21st place.

great - we have record unemployment.

But the indigenous unemployed don't want that work or are indisposed to it.
So the vacancies remain unfilled, and all those taxes lost.

lets send them to live in Spain and make them someone else's problem.

Post Brexit, they can't go there and look for the work that they want.
So UK is stuck with them, and they remain unemployed. Tut tut all those potential taxes llost.

do you think age will improve their earning potential?

Don't try segwaying your way onto a different issue.

You are trying to exclude eligible wealth because it doesn't suit your narrative.

It's not my narrative. It's the narrative of those pensioners who now can't easily retire to the sun.

if only there was a way to generate an income from an asset without selling it.. maybe we could call it... I dunno... renting it out?

Only about 3% of those planning to retire to the sun have more than £100,000 and the average is just £40,000 to finance their new home in the sun.

Unsurprisingly, Generation X, who are the closest to retirement, reported having the largest amount saved, with an average pot size of £39,594.67.

 

[motorbiking]

You seem to want to ignore the facts that kill your argument and tell fibs about what your links say.

Not much point in continuing if you are going to make it up.

 

[King Billy]

You seem to want to ignore the facts that kill your argument and tell fibs about what your links say.

Not much point in continuing if you are going to make it up.

Reduced to worthless insults because the facts that you refer to disprove your argument and show the hypocrisy in your ideology.