'40% of UK Muslims' want Sharia Law

[noodlz]

I'm all for a change BUT don't reckon I'd want that one...

Any possibility of having my willy detached from rest of me is not a chance I wanna take... prefer to keep it where it is thank you very much -
he has much to do ! Good to see you back Moz

 

[Moz]

noodlz
as I mention some other fred I was MIA due to real world issues ...

 

[Slogger]

ok nice idea and one we should let the muslims have


for MUSLIMS ONLY see how long it is before the liberal uk people will put up with stonings beheadings in the uk done by uk muslim

i think its a great idea LET THEM HAVE SHARIA LAW FOR MUSLIMS

 

[Moz]

Slogger
when they say SHARIA LAW they mean for all ...wonder how we would go on in a Middle East country telling them we want a Christian faith ,lol

 

[Slogger]

NAH cant be they mean for all lol


let them have it for themselves


bless them

 

[user56565]

i should add that the poll was conducted by ICM Research, a member of the British Polling Council. It was done on behalf of the Sunday Telegraph. The Daily Mail was merely where I first read the article. Politicians have commented on the results of the poll (David Davis, Charles Clarke), as have Muslim leaders. Doubts can't therefore be raised as to the legitimacy of the survey.
Original Telegraph article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...19.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/19/ixnewstop.html

...considering that a large fraction of the immigrant muslims in this country don't even come from sharia-practicing countries themselves...

This doesn't mean that these Muslims do not favour Sharia law. Many Muslim countries are run by 'corrupt' leaders whom are also keen to keep Sharia law out. The will of the people isn't necessarily the will of these foreign governments.

People can even feel alienated, yet still not only feel loyal but be loyal in spite of the former. Just as someone may not be alone yet still feel lonely, be calm yet feel anger..."come over as alienated" yet feel loyal! Think about it...it's a perfectly consistent logic, yet I do not expect some will have the capacity to comprehend.

I suppose that 'some' is referring to me? Your examples have no logic to them, and are based on wordplay as opposed to the actual content and meaning of the words you use.

loy·al (loi'əl) pronunciation
adj.

1. Steadfast in allegiance to one's homeland, government, or sovereign.
2. Faithful to a person, ideal, custom, cause, or duty.

I question the responses to the survey (40% in favour Sharia law, 20% sympathise with suicide bombers, yet 91% loyal to Britain), because that 20% can't be loyal to Britain. The 40% in favour of Sharia law, they're not faithful to the ideals, customs and cause of Britain (democracy, free speech, racial and religious equality). So 91% loyalty seems far too high.

For more info about Sharia law, read: http://answering-islam.org.uk/Sharia/index.html

The survey in my opinion highlights the large gap between Muslims and Non-Muslims within the UK. As Gary_M and AdamW have both said, immigration has positive aspects. However immigration also has negative aspects, and to avoid these it should always be controlled and integration always encouraged. Note: I am asian (non-muslim), and I feel I have fully integrated.

In reference to Sharia law, I must add that muslims have successfully arranged a Sharia court in Canada. I fear that if a similar thing were to happen here in the UK, we would have started the path to balkanization.

More info on Sharia in Canada: http://www.nosharia.com/
Article about this issue (opinion, not news): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...19.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/19/ixnewstop.html

 

[Slogger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...19.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/19/ixnewstop.html

well i read this and i am alarmed but sortof knew this was the way it was heading

very informative

lets hope we dont let them get there own way OR WOULD IT BE BETTER IF THEY DID

cos we would see them for what they are

i h8 saying it but come on you limpys whats your thoughts on this

 

[Moz]

balkanization

balkanization (bawl-kuh-nuh-zay-shuhn)

Division of a place or country into several small political units, often unfriendly to one another. The term balkanization comes from the name of the Balkan Peninsula, which was divided into several small nations in the early twentieth century.

Slogger
I bet you would look cool in your Imam (male spiritual and temporal leader regarded by Shiites as a descendant of Muhammad divinely appointed to guide humans) outfit ...
coz when the islamic revolution comes you will be made a top muslim extremist ...old lad !

 

[noodlz]

People can even feel alienated, yet still not only feel loyal but be loyal in spite of the former. Just as someone may not be alone yet still feel lonely, be calm yet feel anger..."come over as alienated" yet feel loyal! Think about it...it's a perfectly consistent logic, yet I do not expect some will have the capacity to comprehend.

I suppose that 'some' is referring to me? Your examples have no logic to them, and are based on wordplay as opposed to the actual content and meaning of the words you use.

loy·al (loi'əl) pronunciation
adj.

1. Steadfast in allegiance to one's homeland, government, or sovereign.
2. Faithful to a person, ideal, custom, cause, or duty.

I question the responses to the survey (40% in favour Sharia law, 20% sympathise with suicide bombers, yet 91% loyal to Britain), because that 20% can't be loyal to Britain. The 40% in favour of Sharia law, they're not faithful to the ideals, customs and cause of Britain (democracy, free speech, racial and religious equality). So 91% loyalty seems far too high.

For more info about Sharia law, read: http://answering-islam.org.uk/Sharia/index.html

The survey in my opinion highlights the large gap between Muslims and Non-Muslims within the UK. As Gary_M and AdamW have both said, immigration has positive aspects. However immigration also has negative aspects, and to avoid these it should always be controlled and integration always encouraged. Note: I am asian (non-muslim), and I feel I have fully integrated.

In reference to Sharia law, I must add that muslims have successfully arranged a Sharia court in Canada. I fear that if a similar thing were to happen here in the UK, we would have started the path to balkanization.

More info on Sharia in Canada: http://www.nosharia.com/
Article about this issue (opinion, not news): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...Sheet=/news/2006/02/19/ixnewstop.html[/QUOTE]

User, the 'some' was not meant to be referring to you and apologise if it seemed so, but I would have hoped you would understand. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well...sorry. What I am basically trying to say is that people can feel alienated and be loyal at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive polar opposites. Would you not agree with this?

I still would not wipe my a*se with the Daily Mail, although I cannot say this about The Telegraph, it does sometimes have an unpleasant right-wing agenda, and then I would gladly wipe my a-se with it

There are lies, damn lies.....then there are statistics.

The survey does indeed appear to highlight differences...this is the problem...some (excuse the term User, its a general not personal reference) wish to make differences a chasm. Any poll can easily be manipulated with the way the questions are put and unless you understand the person's meaning in their responses, will potentially leave one with a distorted picture. For instance, if you asked me if I had ANY sympathy with the 7/7 bombers of course I would have to say no, because otherwise my views would be distorted, but I do think that these were in the main manipulated young people who were brainwashed by the views of fanatical extremists. Do I have sympathy with anyone who is brainwashed, yes, I have every sympathy.

I do hope it does not appear that I am playing with words as I am truly trying to convey honest opinions, as I believe you are, User, and I respect that.

I too believe Sharia law would not be appropriate in this country, but just think that the more the divisions that are already there are expanded through political agandas or irresponsilbe reporting the worse we will be as a nation.

By all means we should have a better immigration system and tougher actions through the law on extremists, but I believe the more accepting we all are of every person and their culture, religion, the more we all benefit.

I do appreciate your concerns, User, but just don't agree with them - nothing personal

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Any poll can easily be manipulated with the way the questions are put and unless you understand the person's meaning in their responses, will potentially leave one with a distorted picture.

That is just so true. For example, if a large number of these 500 people interviewed were older males, and immediately before the question on Sharia law there had been several such as "Do you regret the growing lack of respect for their elders in today's Muslim youth?" and "Do you worry about the way Muslim teenagers are adopting western attitudes", and "Are you concerned about what your daughters and granddaughters are learning about sex from their non-Muslim friends?", and you can imagine the answers to questions about Sharia.

Basically any poll can be designed to produce the answers you want.

For instance, if you asked me if I had ANY sympathy with the 7/7 bombers of course I would have to say no, because otherwise my views would be distorted, but I do think that these were in the main manipulated young people who were brainwashed by the views of fanatical extremists. Do I have sympathy with anyone who is brainwashed, yes, I have every sympathy.

Also the subject was described as "feelings and motives". It is quite possible to understand someone's feelings and motives, and to feel sympathy for the person's sense of despair without having any sympathy or agreement for what they did about it.

Finally, I'd like to point out something I've mentioned before. This is not to be taken as saying that they are right, and should be accommodated in their desires, but it should be viewed in perspective.

The current Hirajh date is 1427. What kind of attitudes to crime and punishment were prevalent in Christian Europe in 1427AD?

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

In the province of Ontario, they had a similar debate about instituting Sharia law for the muslim immigrants in Ontario, and overwhelmingly the female muslims did not want to be subject to Sharia law.

The reason why is that under the British, American and Canadian Common Law, then women have greater rights and in some cases are in a better position than men particularily as to how family assets are to be divided in the case of a divorce.

In Canada, the provinces have all enacted provincial legislation to allow a wife to occupy the family home if that home was acquired during the marriage (as opposed to being owned by the husband prior to the marriage).

Also, where shared custody is not feasible, Canadian courts have a tendancy to grant custody of any minor children to the mother instead of the father in divorce cases. (But, I'm not sure what Sharia law says about custody disputes over minor children.)

But, on a personal note, I personally don't think it's a good idea to have two different legal systems within a single country. Here in Canada, all of the provinces except Quebec use the British Common Law and are predominantly English speaking. In the province of Quebec, they use the French Civil Code and most of the people (except in the larger cities) are predominantly French speaking, and the education of children is conducted in French. The result of this difference has been a 200 year long marriage between two different cultures within one country, and now the province of Quebec wants a divorce. The predominantly French speaking peoples (living in the Province of Quebec) now want to separate from the rest of Canada and form their own country.

Separation of Quebec from the rest of Canada would effectively cut our country in half, and it's inevitable that those provinces lying to the east of Quebec and those lying to the west of Quebec would eventually go their separate ways. Also, the separation of Quebec from Canada creates legal issues with the rights of the predominantly English speaking native people living in the northern part of Quebec to separate from Quebec and form their own country or rejoin the rest of Canada. Ditto for the predominantly English speaking areas of western Quebec.

I feel that when a person immigrates to a new country, they have every right to keep their own personal religious beliefs and to speak their native tongue within their own ethnic community. However, they have an obligation to assimilate into the country they have sworn an allegiance to and become citizens of in order to ensure (as far as possible) unity of that country and harmony amongst it's citizens. Anything else tends to lead to division amongst the peoples of the country, just as it did in Canada.

 

[Adam_151]

with repect to the survey issue, heres a rather apt BOFH episode: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/25/bofh_and_the_pointless_questionnaire/

 

[user56565]

User, the 'some' was not meant to be referring to you

apologies for the misunderstanding.

In the province of Ontario, they had a similar debate about instituting Sharia law for the muslim immigrants in Ontario, and overwhelmingly the female muslims did not want to be subject to Sharia law.
The reason why is that under the British, American and Canadian Common Law, then women have greater rights

Under sharia law and islam, women are not treated as equals. 2 examples include: a woman's share in inheritance is half that of a man's, and a woman's testimony in court carries only half that of a man's. The Koran also permits the beating of one's wive(s).

(But, I'm not sure what Sharia law says about custody disputes over minor children.)

The only article I could find quickly enough in reference to this is:

Should a marriage go sour, mothers have no right to custody of the children.
Glacier in the desert. A Survey of Saudi Arabia. The Economist.

I should add that I completely agree with the opinions in your last post Nestor.

Basically any poll can be designed to produce the answers you want.

i agree with what both you and noodlz say. surveys and polls have inherent flaws and rely heavily on correct sampling and statistical analysis. also there may be incentives for a polling company to perform the survey so as to serve the interests of their client.

however, as i stated in my second post, there are reasons to believe that the survey results are broadly accurate. ICM research is one of the biggest survey companies here in the UK, and as such has a lot of experience as to how to conduct surveys in a correct manner. Their regular clients include 'left-wing' media such as 'The Guardian', and the 'BBC'. Its a member of the British Polling Council, which aims to ensure that the surveys conducted by its members are legitimate. Further, several key figures + politicians have commented on the results without questioning its accuracy.

information about surveys from the british polling council: http://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/faq.html

The following may be of interest:

FULL SURVEY IN DETAIL
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/review...Mulims Feb/Sunday Telegraph Muslims feb06.asp

 

[Zampa]

I dont know why we dont just knock the houses of Parliament down..build em a temple and move out..

The worrying thing is...idiots like Red Ken and Galloway will back them.

 

[noodlz]

Why not have as the headline only 1% of muslims surveyed said they thought the London bombings were right? Even that's maybe hotheads who can't express themselves any other way, but what I'm indicating is that certain aspects of the media and the government are exaserbating the problem further.

Have just watched dispatches on Channel 4, which relates to this issue. Very interesting programme (repeated 4.10am this morning set your video if want to know more or read the article below which is basically a summary of the programme (bit long!)

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/S/spinning_terror/downloads/oborne_terror.pdf

As BAS has said, Islam is a relatively young religion in comparison to Christianity and many muslims may not have had as broad an education as the majority in the West. Grass always looks greener, just as people in Afghanistan may have wished for Sharia law, however when they got the Taliban, many would be regretting loss of freedoms.

Whatever is said, when it comes down to it, most people who settle here love this country, despite certain understable ambivalences. Sharia law is not appropriate for this country, but in other countries, as with any law, it is as much the interpretation of the law as the law itself that is of importance. If you ask any decent, educated human being, be they muslim or not, would they believe it appropriate to beat your wife, they would say no. Extremists could equally manipulate the Bible to justify abhorrent acts.

There are ignorant people all over the world manipulating religions for their own agendas, but the majority of people of whatever creed want the same things - to lead a peaceful, happy, fulfilling life. If we saw people as people in that light first and try to be inclusive, respectful and appreciative of differences, many conflicts would dissolve before they were augmented.

This does not mean we should be a soft touch but should rigorously enforce the laws in conjunction.

Disillusionment and alienation are the breeding ground for the extremist's recruitment and in my opinion if these were addressed, instead of fed, we would starve the militants to very small minority groups. Frank Gardener, a BBC security correspondent shot by militants in Saudi Arabia, in spite of this still says that to win this war we need the hearts and minds of muslims and at the moment we're losing that fight.