407 1.6HDI Fan belt / Power steering issues

[Adam_151]

On Christmas Eve, My car stalled and there was a smell of burning plastic and rubber in the air. I lifted the bonnet and the fan belt was hot and had a bit of smoke coming from it. Was only 1/4 from home at this point. Shut the bonnet and the engine started. Drove home and borrowed a car for visiting family on Christmas.

I took the fan belt off, and everything driven by it seemed to rotate easily, Also checked the clutch pulley on the alternator worked as it should. Noticed the back of the belt was shiny and smooth as if it had been rubbing. So Today I fitted a new tensioner (as I thought that was rubbing on the belt). Started it and seemed fine. Power steering felt like it was in/op as I turned out the driveway. However just as I was about to reverse back it sorted itself out, so I continued on

Got a mile down the road and battery light came on, turned around, battery light had gone out. Drove home and lifted the bonnet and the belt had a hot smell about it and after switching off felt very hot to the touch. Came back to it after a cup of tea and it wouldn't start. Jumped it, then checked the volatge (just a touch over 14v - suggests that the alternator is working?). After a good while running the belt was still at a temperature you'd expect. However noticed that when turning the steering at low speed on the driveway that it seems to make some funny noises and particles appear in the engine bay. At the rear back there does appear to be what looks from a distance with a torch to be small amount of metal fillings sat there.

At the moment I am making the assumption that there could be something wrong with the power steering and when it has to work its putting the belt under strain, making it hot, and stopping the alternator charging the battery properly? Does that sound plausible at all.

I'm going to see if there are any garages open tomorrow, but I'd like to try and work out what is likely to need replacing!

Thanks In advance,

Adam

 

[Burnerman]

407's have either a mechanical, belt driven pump or if its a later model, an electric one.....I guess yours is the mechanical one?
Drop the belt off, spin the pump by hand (which should be smooth and free) and check for up and down movement of the ribbed pulley.
Also check the belt isn't making contact with the cam belt cover....that's not unknown!
Hows the PAS fluid level doing?
John

 

[Adam_151]

Mines a mechanical pump. I thought all the 1.6s had mechanical and all 2.0 models had electric?

When the belt was off it seemed to turn by hand smoothly, and while I did not particualy check for sideways moment, I think I would have perhaps noticed if there was.

Belt isn't making contact with anything it shouldn't be, I don't know where the cam belt cover is on the 407 but understand its near by?

The fluid level... I don't know... I tried to check it but I have a black tank with some kind of filter insert... I am unsure how to actually check this?

Many thanks for your swift response, John

Adam

 

[Burnerman]

The timing belt cover is right alongside your PAS / alternator belt......the belts only really make contact if they have come loose or have been incorrectly fitted so you can forget about that.
The PAS header tank should have a steering wheel icon on its filler cap as a rule.....unscrew it and the fluid should be visible, a red colour oil. You can fish out the filter with a finger, but the oil level should still be visible.
Power steering intermittent failure is usually due to a low fluid level, I have to say.....but as you can see some metal debris then something is breaking up! I have had pulleys shear off and pumps leak like hell but I've never seen a seized one - but there's always a first time! Can you feel filings around the pump area?
My theory - and that is all it is at the moment - is that the PAS pump is putting up such a resistance that its stopping the drive belt from running - hence the ignition light coming on.
Nowt like a bit of guesswork!
John

 

[Adam_151]

I am afraid I am at a loss at how to check the fluid level... The tank is easy enough to find. Its black and there is no way of seeing through the side. Unscrew the top and about a 1/3 of the depth of the tank down there is a bit of plastic with two raised lugs that does not pop out. I am unable to see the fluid itself. The neck has ridges on the inside

The haynes books Says "On 1.6 litre models remove the reservoir cap and check the level (arrowed) inside the fluid reservoir neck". There is a picture of the tank with a big arrow pointing into it with the cap removed. I have been out with a torch and unable to see what I could possibly be looking at.

Am I looking at a serverley depleted system or an I reading it wrong?. I have not noticed any puddles under the car and it was serviced in november, I would have thought if it was not within spec then it would have been brought to my attention at service?

It seems the 2.0 litre models have a dipstick on the cap!

EDIT: https://teon.co/cars/peugeot-407-di...-checks/chapter_parts/checking-steering-fluid

The pictures are of what I am looking at, but I am unsure of how I am am meant to be checking it, what am I missing?

 

[Burnerman]

If you are certain you have found the right tank, Adam, feel free to add PAS fluid until the level is completely visible......even 1/2" from the top and it isn't going to overflow. Dextron 2 or 3 is fine. PAS tanks aren't always see through.
Leaks usually appear at the rack gaiters or at the pump pulley shaft itself - a bit of weep on the low pressure return pipe is common enough.
Sort that, and lets know what happens......still interested where you are finding the metal swarf!
John

 

[Adam_151]

The above shows what I think looks like metal swarf on various surfaces, Ignore the wet tarmac underneath the car that confuses inititally



Picture was taken by holding camara in the gap here that is just above and left to the centre of the frame. Red cap to the bottom left is where I have been trying to check PAS fluid

Cheers John

 

[Burnerman]

Sure looks like aluminium shavings, Adam! Unfortunately its impossible to guess where its from, but maybe the PAS pulley is catching on something?
I would have expected an unusual noise if it was.
Anyway, the PAS reservoir is the one, bottom left.
John

 

[wv62]

It may be worth you popping over to the 407 owners club at www.407owners.com They're a really helpful bunch. Got a 2.0 SW X-Line myself.

 

[Adam_151]

Just an update, Managed to find somewhere open today. It was pointed out to me that the crankshaft pulley for the fan belt was in contact with a bolt head on the engine (which I then could see myself - its easier in daylight!!). It seems its broken down internally which has allowed it to move over (I never realised that there was more to them than a metal wheel!) The bad news is that they cant get the part today, so left it with them for the morning.

 

[Burnerman]

Pleased you've found the cause!
The pulley is actually in a couple of pieces bonded together with rubber - which in you're case has obviously delaminated. It forms a sort of torsion damper for the crankshaft.
John

 

[Adam_151]

Many thanks for all the advice here.

Crankshaft pulley replaced, wallet £160 lighter and car is all sorted .... looking at the invoice looks like part was £80+vat. (think it may have had to come from Peugeot themselves) So glad I got the garage to do it. I could have wasted an entire day, looked for a non existant issue with the PAS pump and grazed a few knuckles and saved just over £50!

I saw the one that came off and it was in two separate bits, the rubber had torn completely apart, apparently it was lucky that it didn't damage the timing belt!

Thanks again