Afro Jet set

[pipme]

Meanwhile, as our leaders jostle for world approval -- with OUR dosh of course .......

The West has been throwing money at Africa for decades, and yet the continent remains on its knees. Where has all the money gone? One of the 18 countries which is having its debt written off is Tanzania. This is the same Tanzania that in 2001 received a 3billion debt-relief package from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. Shortly after getting the cash, President Benjamin Mkapa bought himself a private jet for 14million. And when Gordon Brown visited Tanzania and announced a further 35million of debt relief, President Mkapa celebrated by buying himself an even fancier plane - for 30million. The stink of corruption in Africa is overwhelming too many African leaders have used aid from the West to build monuments to their colossal vanities.

Gullibility knows no bounds !! Africa slides down the tubes .. So much for Nelson M and the whole motley crew .. they couldn't run a pizz up in the proverbial... We helped get shot of their providers - now look at it, what a mess !! Reputations made .. for what? Ask the starving poor ! Presidents and leaders ain't magicians it needs more, much more... If we help oust Magabe .. Who takes over

In the 1985 election, however, Smith managed to recapture 15 of the 20 parliamentary seats that were reserved for whites. Mugabe, angered and threatened by Smith's strong showing, moved to abolish the reserved seats two years later. Smith retired to his farm in Shurugwi, his political career of 39 years over.

Come back Ian all is forgiven !

Where are all the do-gooders now?
Twas fashionable to drop the whites, but after the indigenous people tasted the alternative Miffer nearly got back !

 

[kendor]

Pip the masses have always been in trouble mainkly because of white rule and corruption beforehand, what's being asked is to return some of that stolen wealth.
besides all that how can the populace be held responsible for their predicament?? you're always telling us that blair is responsible for this and that over here so likewise the people who are suffering over there need our help. Show more compassion for your fellow man.

 

[pipme]

Only stating the obvious ... When I first heard the talk from those having been there - living - I was sceptical .. Nearly all I heard then has sadly come to pass ...
Anyone who thinks giving dosh for the publicityof the moment, knowing the despots will spend most of it on themselves .. must be slightly mad.
The aid must ge tto the people on the ground .. Happy with that.

 

[AdamW]

Pip the masses have always been in trouble mainkly because of white rule and corruption beforehand, what's being asked is to return some of that stolen wealth.

A black guy burgled the villa we rented in Portugal one summer, took the best part of £1000-worth of money and property. Should I claim compensation from Africa because this guy was of African ethnicity?

Obviously not. By the same logic, I'm white, but there is no way I should pay for the mistakes of other people simply because they had a similar skin colour to mine. When we relieve the debt of other nations, through the taxes I pay, it should be because of the charitable nature of this country. I refuse to go along with "white-guilt". It is wrong, very wrong.

 

[confidentincompetent]

Cant help thinking the more dosh we throw at them the less they want to do for themselves!! Its like the benefit system here once your in the club you don't want to work no incentive.
I'm all for pumping aid direct to the problem. But as pipme points out not to keep those leaders in new jets.
Mugabe is the next one, hes obviously seen that if he starves his people the west will keep him in luxury. Untill someone goes in and assasinates these tyrants all i can do is thank god it's them and not me.

 

[AdamW]

Problem is, regime change is illegal and that is what it would take. These vain and selfish leaders keep as much as they can without stopping the money coming in. And what would happen with the next bloke we put in power? Possibly the same. We can't go back to Imperialism, even if it would be the best thing for many of these countries.

 

[kendor]

Pip the masses have always been in trouble mainkly because of white rule and corruption beforehand, what's being asked is to return some of that stolen wealth.

A black guy burgled the villa we rented in Portugal one summer, took the best part of £1000-worth of money and property. Should I claim compensation from Africa because this guy was of African ethnicity?

Obviously not. By the same logic, I'm white, but there is no way I should pay for the mistakes of other people simply because they had a similar skin colour to mine. When we relieve the debt of other nations, through the taxes I pay, it should be because of the charitable nature of this country. I refuse to go along with "white-guilt". It is wrong, very wrong.

come on adam you are twisting the facts and using individuals actions to argue the case, whereas my point was based on the actions of a colonial rule not based on individuals ransacking.

 

[kendor]

Cant help thinking the more dosh we throw at them the less they want to do for themselves!! Its like the benefit system here once your in the club you don't want to work no incentive.
I'm all for pumping aid direct to the problem. But as pipme points out not to keep those leaders in new jets.
Mugabe is the next one, hes obviously seen that if he starves his people the west will keep him in luxury. Untill someone goes in and assasinates these tyrants all i can do is thank god it's them and not me.

you are painting a picture of these individuals living it up in their mud huts with colour tv and champagne whereas you know that isn't the case, the money is for schemes to help build facilities for them they still need to work to feed themselves.

 

[kendor]

Problem is, regime change is illegal and that is what it would take. These vain and selfish leaders keep as much as they can without stopping the money coming in. And what would happen with the next bloke we put in power? Possibly the same. We can't go back to Imperialism, even if it would be the best thing for many of these countries.

best thing for which country, Africa or Britain?
the only interference with the politics of the country should be one of starving the military juntas of their arms and ammunition and force legal elections.

 

[AdamW]

Yes, but this is where the problem lies. If we just cut off the funding and supplies then the military leaders will just take it out on the people by cutting their food supplies. Starving people versus armed well-fed soldiers prove no match.

So, the "incite revolution" method would be unlikely to work.

Well, we could ensure that aid goes where it should, couldn't we? How could we do that? Hmm... you would need an armed convoy. Can you picture a warlord allowing us to send an armed convoy through his territory, to feed the people who might rise against him if they were strong enough? Doubt it.

Oooh, perhaps we could go in with direct military action, depose the corrupt leaders ourselves? Hmmm... well, last time I checked deliberate regime change, no matter how bad the existing regime, is illegal under international law.

Also, history has shown that supplying arms to a group of people to let them sieze power from a corrupt leadership always brings you back to square one.

It's really not an easy one, but I think that we won't solve it properly unless we do something a bit naughty.

 

[kendor]

By starving the militia i mean stop the convoy of weapons and make it illegal to trade in arms on a world scale through the UN and arrest and if necessary bring in harsh penalties against those who would try to break the imbargo.

 

[pipme]

Hang on, Ian Smith was not killing indiscriminately in Rhodesia ... His lot provided work and sustinence, but in the light of the last 25 years, were spot on in not sharing the leadership ... I think the majority of simple folk would have implored us to maintain the status quo had they realised what lay ahead !!

 

[kendor]

Hang on, Ian Smith was not killing indiscriminately in Rhodesia ... His lot provided work and sustinence, but in the light of the last 25 years, were spot on in not sharing the leadership ... I think the majority of simple folk would have implored us to maintain the status quo had they realised what lay ahead !!

treating the majority of the population as little better than animals, you call that the status quo?

 

[pipme]

Has it changed then ? Bet it's worse being treated badly by your own kind.

 

[kendor]

Has it changed then ? Bet it's worse being treated badly by your own kind.

no one is saying they are better off thats why they still need help.