Bathroom Cabinet Peeling

[fouxdafafa]

I have a wood effect bathroom unit, I guess it's called a vanity unit - one that's under the washbasin - and the surface is starting to peel off the edge of the door along the vertical join with the back face. Pretty sure all it needs is gluing back down (or at least, that's all I intend doing) but I'm wondering what kind of glue to use. I don't know at this point what the door's made of (MDF?) or what the laminate is (clearly not wood, but vinyl perhaps?). Any suggestions?

 

[foxhole]

If there is any swelling due to moisture getting in then it will need replacement .
Hold old is it? Any pic?

 

[fouxdafafa]

If there is any swelling due to moisture getting in then it will need replacement .
Hold old is it? Any pic?

No, there's no swelling. It's about 6 years old. I'll take a pic in a bit.

 

[conny]

There will probably be minor swelling that's not really noticeable to the naked eye but enough to allow moisture in to cause the peeling.

If you want to be anal about finding out you could measure the thickness where it is peeling and then measure the opposite side. Use a digital Vernier or micrometre for accurate readings.

 

[fouxdafafa]

I've tried to kill two birds here in this photo because it's almost impossible to take a photo from the other side (short of removing the door). The near edge is the good edge, and on the inside of the furthest you can hopefully see where it's peeling away.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I'm afraid that your doors were quite probably manufactured using a process called vinyl wrapping or possibly a similar process called foil wrapping. With vinyl wrapping an MDF door blank is machined to the required profile (in your case a round over edge) then the face of the MDF is coated with a heat activated PU glue, vinyl is stretched over the face of the door and heat an vacuum clamping then cause the vinyl to shrink and bond onto the surface of the door blank. Unfortunately such doors are practically unrepairable as the vinyl to skin is so thin and any attempt to apply heat to reactivate the glue will just cause the vinyl to shrink. These doors don't do well when subjected to a combination of heat and high humidity - such as on an upper kitchen cabinet door located directly above a kettle point or in some cases in a well used bathroom where the extraction isn't good

 

[conny]

As Jobandknock says, very unlikely you will be able to use heat on it.
However, it's not going to get any better on it's own so you may as well have a go at trying to glue it back down.
You try some Gorilla glue. It will involve removing the door from it's hinges so you can work on it on a flat surface. Run a bead between the two surfaces then place a strip of wood along each edge of the door and GENTLY cramp the blocks to squeeze the 'laminate' to the door edge. Wipe off any excess glue with a damp cloth and allow to set for 24 hrs.
Can't guarantee it will work, but as I said, it won't get any better on it's own.
Let us know how you get on. It's frustrating to give advice to someone and never know if they took it or if it worked.

 

[fouxdafafa]

As Jobandknock says, very unlikely you will be able to use heat on it.
However, it's not going to get any better on it's own so you may as well have a go at trying to glue it back down.
You try some Gorilla glue. It will involve removing the door from it's hinges so you can work on it on a flat surface. Run a bead between the two surfaces then place a strip of wood along each edge of the door and GENTLY cramp the blocks to squeeze the 'laminate' to the door edge. Wipe off any excess glue with a damp cloth and allow to set for 24 hrs.
Can't guarantee it will work, but as I said, it won't get any better on it's own.
Let us know how you get on. It's frustrating to give advice to someone and never know if they took it or if it worked.

Thanks everyone. I'll shall give it a shot - what's the worst that could happen?

Which type of gorilla glue do you suggest? They do all sorts - wood glue, super glue, epoxy, etc.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The surfaces are already contaminated with PU glue (from the manufacturing process) so super glue (cyanoacrylate) won't adhere to it and may even attack the vinyl. I doubt that epoxy adhesive will readily adhere to the MDF substrate so PU (polyurethane) is the only one that stands any chance. Ordinary wood glue (PVA) won't readily adhere to vinyl, either. With vinyl you need to avoid heat or solvents of any type because both can lead to shrinkage

 

[conny]

Thanks everyone. I'll shall give it a shot - what's the worst that could happen?

Which type of gorilla glue do you suggest? They do all sorts - wood glue, super glue, epoxy, etc.

I use the wood glue in my workshop but that's on proper wood. It's very strong on the likes of biscuit/dowel/dovetail and mortice & tenon joints.
I've also used it to glue flat strips to form a block for use in my lathe and had no break offs.

 

[fouxdafafa]

The surfaces are already contaminated with PU glue (from the manufacturing process) so super glue (cyanoacrylate) won't adhere to it and may even attack the vinyl. I doubt that epoxy adhesive will readily adhere to the MDF substrate so PU (polyurethane) is the only one that stands any chance. Ordinary wood glue (PVA) won't readily adhere to vinyl, either. With vinyl you need to avoid heat or solvents of any type because both can lead to shrinkage

Never used Gorilla glue before (heard of it obviously), so I've been reading reviews of the original PU version. Sounds like fantastic stuff but everyone comments on the expansion/foaming. It worries me slightly that if I clamp the peeling surface down it'll either expand out of the joint and be impossible to remove from the back of the door once cured, or (if it doesn't have anywhere to go) might creep further under the surface and do some damage. Is there a PU glue that doesn't expand but is as good as everyone says Gorilla glue is? I've seen some chap on YouTube using grip adhesive with masking tape to hold the surface in place until it cures. Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Is there a PU glue that doesn't expand but is as good as everyone says Gorilla glue is?

Gorilla Glue, or at least the original, was the first widely advertised PU glue for woodworkers. As such the name has stuck in people's minds, but TBH it was always too expensive for me. I used to buy PU glue made by H F Fuller (a US firm) at less than half the price (per litre) way back in the 1990s. These days I generally get Everbuild Lumberjack PU glue (available in 5 min and 30 min setting varieties) from Toolstation

The problem with PU glues is that they work by reacting with the moisture in the atmosphere and this chemical reaction causes foaming. There are reduced foaming PU glues in gel form rather than liquid, generally only available in caulking gun tube varieties like this one. These still foam, however much less than the liquid glues do. Even the heat-reactive PU used to bond the foil surface originally would have expanded, but the pressure of the vacuum press membrane would have counteracted that

Good luck trying to hold a film with masking tape. It might work, it might not, but be aware that when used for woodworking PU glue requires full clamping to be effective

 

[fouxdafafa]

I promised to report back. Did the gorilla glue thing, with a combination of masking tape (about 20 short pieces to hold the peeling vinyl down along its whole length), together with a piece of piece of wood "clamped" by 3 bungee cords (don't have clamps, and didn't feel like investing - currently 16 bungees for £4.99 at Screwfix - always wanted some!). Left it for a day and a half. Just removed all the paraphernalia and, although there's lots of glue residue from the expansion, it seems to have stuck pretty well. I may scrape the residue off, but actually I'm not too bothered because it's on the inside of the door. I had noticed when I was gluing the long vertical edge that the bottom edge is starting to peel as well, but nowhere near as bad as the vertical edge. So I'm currently gluing that edge using the same method. I also noticed there is a slight bit of swelling along the bottom edge, as you predicted - but it's strange because the vertical edge has none. FYI, the vertical edge is nearest to the shower cubicle - probably about 18in away - so presumably that's why it's failed. Only time will tell how long it lasts. On these types of doors, it's obviously the join between the front face and back face vinyl sheet that's the weak point. It's a wonder it's not protected by some coating of something or other - something waterproof.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you think about it, technically the door is protected by something waterproof - a waterproof vinyl membrane. The problem is that in this case the manufacturing hasn't really been up to the environment in which the door lives. Believe me when I say that this is not an isolated incident. Far better (well, more durable) were the older style doors with a decorative laminate facing on both sides and a 2 to 3mm thick PVC or ABS edge banding. For some reason these are nowadays confined to contract work, such as council houses

 

[fouxdafafa]

Sure. I've seen a lot of videos on YouTube that show the whole vinyl covering coming off in one piece. There was some talk of this method of construction failing due to a change in the adhesive used. Makes me wonder why we don't just paint the MDF and be done with it.

My door is now back on the cabinet and I haven't been too fussy about removing the glue residue. I have no idea whether it'll last a day, a month or years(s).

Apologies: I should have said thanks for your input.