Boiler loosing pressure - Ran tests, advice needed !

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Hi - looking for some much needed advice & clarity on what may be happening with my setup.. any insight greatly appreciated



- Context : i have a Baxi combi boiler in a recently built home (both from 2020).

The home has underfloor heating throughout, on 2 floors.

My boiler is loosing pressure, from 1.2 bar to 0.7 bar in half a day.



I have recently realised that the auto fill loop was left on the whole time (as in months, potentially years) by the initial installer (who now no longer exist, so its up to me to figure it out) ; as when the engineer came for boiler maintenance and closed the auto fill, the next day it was showing low pressure.



- There is no obvious sign of leak, or damp or else, anywhere in the house (2 floors), neither floor, walls, ceiling.. and i have bought a thermal imaging Flir module too (not as good as the 4 digit ones), and i cant see anything looking out of the ordinary on the UFH (apart from maybe 1 zone that heats up slower, and under the carpeted bedrooms, because i cant see the "details" of the pipework there, just whole heated zone. But overall, if there was a leak there for several months, potentially years, i guess it should at the very least show.



Test : When i shut down the UFH on both floors (the red and blue ball valves, at manifold level, for each), half a day later, the pressure has dropped the same on the boiler. Same when i shut down 1 system only instead of the 2



---> Question 1 : so does it mean that i can rule out that there is a leak under my floors (from the points of the manifolds, to everything going under my floors, ie. the tubes/loops) ?



--> Question 2 : Could my combi boiler be at fault, rather than the pressure drop being due to a leak ?

(at maintenance time, they found the expansion vessel and the secondary exchnager to be faulty and it was changed, under boiler cover i had active...but they did not test any other component for pressure drop, because at that time i did not know there was one, its only after that i found out).

What elements should i tell the engineer to test out / or replace, on the boiler, that could cause a pressure drop ?

(He is coming in a few days, and i just want to make sure he doesnt push the fault to there being a leak, if there is a possibility the issue is at boiler level)





--> Question 3 : if its not the underfloor heating "loops" in the floors (as per point 1), and not the boiler (point 2), then the only option is that it could be the central heating pipes running from the boiler to the manifold 1, and manifold 2, correct ?

(But i can see 90% of the path on these rather clearly with thermal imaging, and the lines look very neat)



---> Question 4 : Any other idea ?



Thank you very much !
 
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If the filling loop was left open first thing I’d be looking at is the pressure relief valve pipework. If it’s not that then closing the flow and return at the boiler would be second.
 
If it's an autofill loop then it's meant to be left open, if it's just a normal valved fill loop that was left open then it could also be a I've seem used by some installers. If there is a persistent leak leak on a complicated system and if the mains pressure allows or a Pressure Reducing Valve is installed, then why not leave the filling loop open, then there won't be a perceptible drop in pressure.

As suggested though, top up the system before bed and then shut down the boiler and the flow and return valves, if you get up in the morn and the pressure has dropped then your looking for it to be internal to the boiler (PRV etc), if it hasn't dropped and when you open up the valves again and it drops then it's out on the system where you need to look.
 
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Thanks very much for your replies.
That's a good idea, i will try closing the flow & return valve at boiler level to see how the pressure behaves.
---> Can you help tell me which of these are the 1/ flow and 2/ return valves, on this photo ?

Also i am attaching what i call the "auto fill loop" (and yes, when its open, there has never been a perceptible drop in pressure, its always 1.1 bar cold, 1.5 bar hot). But i dont know if it is "designed" to stay open or not.
 

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Have a look at this:
 

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There you go, the installer has fitted a home made 'auto' filling loop. The flexi is coming from the cold mains inlet to a Pressure Reducing Valve (PRV) that's then connected to the return on the boiler. The PRV will be set to ~1.1bar and always open and it's a cheat IMO.

It reduces any calls backs for drops in pressure and will mask any issue with leaks/weeps. What it can also do, if there is a leak/weep present, is continually fill the system with fresh oxygenated water which will dilute any inhibitor and promote and accelerate corrosion.

You need to get an experience installer/engineer on board who is knowledgeable in UFH and advanced CH systems and get him to sort that out. It needs to be isolated from that 'auto fill' and then the system pressure drop identified and fixed. You have an extensive and advanced CH system and it needs set up properly.
 
Thanks for your replies - much appreciated.
I have done the following *Test #2*, based on suggestions above :

- I closed, at boiler level, the flow and return valves, of the central heating
- I closed the autofill loop

(I left it 5 hours - at initial situation pressure was 1.1 bar as usual)

- I return and the boiler is throwing error message saying low pressure
and i can see on the boiler gauge that its <0.5 bar

--> What does it mean / what are the conclusions ?
Is it normal that the boiler went from 1.1 bar to 0.5 bar, on its own, while the central heating was cut off entirely ? Or is it indicative that the boiler (a component) is faulty ?

Afterwards, I re-opened the flow & return valves, and the gauge goes back to approx 0.9 bar.
And then i reopen the autofill loop, at which point it adjust it to 1.1 bar (as per initial situation)

Thanks !
 
Either your Pressure relief valve is letting water out the system ,or your heat exchanger is perforated / has a pin hole leak.
 
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Either your Pressure relief valve is letting water out the system ,or your heat exchanger is perforated / has a pin hole leak.
Thanks . I am a bit concerned that pressure didnt snap back up to 1.1 bar (initial sits) as i reopened the flow & return valves.. but to approx 0.9 bar. (and that its only when i also reopened tha auto fill that it went to 1.1 bar)

If its "just" the boiler that would be a relief for me, i have boiler cover with manufacturer, and should be able to ask them to change those components. (and much less hassle that looking for a leak in the system).
 
Don't be concerned about the pressure rising to 0.9 bar after opening the valves.
You Can feel relieved if boiler cover includes replacing heat exchanger.
 
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