Cable and insulation

[lj329]

Hi All

I have had a lean to kitchen extension built. Inside the ceiling has been left "vaulted" with a velux window.

To comply with the BCOs wishes I have put 130mm of PIR insulation in the rafters.

However the electrician, who has sucked his teeth over just about everything I have asked for, now wants to take out all the insulation in order to fit recessed spotlights. He is claiming that the cables etc can't be near the insulation, and since there will be several lights, most of the insulation will have to be removed.

So what do I do here, have lights and be a bit chilly or sit in the dark and warm!

Thanks

Lee

 

[Taylortwocities]

You cannot put downlights in there. Building control will not allow it as it will compromise the thermal efficiency of the ceiling and go against building regulations.

See http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partc/

Better to choose an effective way of lighting your kitchen - downlighters are not the right choice.

 

[automationman]

As taylortwocities mentions, downlights are not an effective way to provide primary lighting especially in a kitchen. They are fine for accentuating features but you will need pendent or fluorescent lamps to adequately light a kitchen.

If you really want downlights then you might look at this page:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Fire_Cover_Downlight/index.html


But bare in mind that your electrician will be concerned with cable sizing VS load in addition to the fire risk of downlights. Any cable that runs within or under or on top of thermal insulation would probably need to be sized up appropriately (increased cable size ) or better still clipped up high above insulation and drop down to each light position which is tricky is a limited loft space. There are strict building regulation in regard to this subject and they are there for very good reasons. Many house fires have resulted from downlights being installed incorrectly. Do you really want to take that risk and go to all that trouble to poorly illuminate your kitchen?

 

[bernardgreen]

The comments about spotlights and downlights as being not good in kitchens due to poor light spread are all true.

Another danger of them is when they shatter ( they do sometimes spontaniously shatter ) and the glass shards end up in the meal being cooked directly under them.

 

[automationman]

I was called out just last week to replace two downlights with a nice pendent light for that very reason. A GU10 halogen lamp blew its entire glass front over a kitchen worksurface. OK you could fit LED or florescent GU10s but that still does not solve the narrow illumination angle and LEDs emit a fairly narrow bandwidth resulting in something that looks like a monochromatic light source (slight exaggeration but you get my point) Downlights with halogen, LED, fluorescent have there place but not as primary lighting sources...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... recessed spotlights ...

Spotlights are called that for a reason.

That reason is that they are designed to light up spots, not whole rooms. In fact they are specifically designed to not spread their light far and wide.

So if you use them in a way which they are specifically designed to be unsuitable for, i.e. for general room illumination, you have to use a lot of them to counteract their designed-in inefficiency. It is the sheer number of them which you need to use which which makes it a PITA to comply with Parts B2, B3, C2 and L1.

Could you get by with jut 1 or 2 lights? If so it won't be unrealistic to comply with the Building Regulations.

 

[lj329]

OK thanks for the replies - I get it.

Has anyone any other suggestions on how I can provide primary lighting for a room with a big sloped ceiling - something that is effective but also doesn't make the room look like a garage ie large flourescent, plastic things

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Recessed lights of a larger size so that you don't have to use so many that all the holes become a problem?

Luminaires using electrodeless induction lamps?

Luminaires using dielectric barrier discharge technology, e.g. Osram Planon?

Cold Cathode Lighting?:



here's an example of that in a domestic kitchen:

Untitled

• slup
• 31 Jan 2009
• 16

OK - not a vaulted ceiling, but an illustration that it isn't only suitable for nightclubs and hotel foyers...

As the old saying goes, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

And if all you do is look in DIY sheds everything looks like a downlighter.

 

[bernardgreen]

Put a couple of dummy oak beams across the room and fit uplighters to shine light onto the ceiling which you paint in a light reflecting white colour.

You can then have energy efficient lamps out of sight sunk into the hollowed out beams.

 

[skenk]

here's an example of that in a domestic kitchen:

Untitled

• slup
• 31 Jan 2009
• 16

OK - not a vaulted ceiling, but an illustration that it isn't only suitable for nightclubs and hotel foyers...

Still needs downlights to supplement though!?