Cable length with lighting inverters

[Monkeh]

The main functional component in a computer is the CPU, but we don't call the whole thing 'a CPU'.

Some people do.. Some people call switch-mode supplies ballasts and transformers, too.

 

[Robin0577]

Fair point John

Sadly I know of far too many people who think that a desktop computer consists of monitor, keyboard, mouse & CPU, the CPU being "that big black box bit that everything else plugs into"

 

[JohnW2]

.. Some people call switch-mode supplies ballasts and transformers, too.

Indeed they do. 'Ballast' in itself is an interesting bit of jargon - we already had some perfectly good 'specialist terms' ('choke' or 'inductor'), so goodness knows why someone felt the need to invent a new word!

... and now we have 'electronic ballasts'

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The main functional component in a computer is the CPU, but we don't call the whole thing 'a CPU'.

We don't but we would if Mr Babbage instead had called his difference engine his central processing unit.

 

[ericmark]

Indeed they do. 'Ballast' in itself is an interesting bit of jargon - we already had some perfectly good 'specialist terms' ('choke' or 'inductor'), so goodness knows why someone felt the need to invent a new word!

... and now we have 'electronic ballasts'

Kind Regards, John

A ballast does two jobs it produces the spike of voltage required to strike the tube and also restricts the current once the tube is running so to fit a choke or inductor with same value in Henrys would not necessary replace the ballast and to coin a new name makes sense. As to electronic ballast not so sure as in the main the HF unit combines the starter and ballast together so is not a direct replacement.

This is of course the point with the word transformer. If we class any item containing a transformer as a transformer then car battery charger, phone charger, battery eliminators, and even the whole DVD player could be called a transformer.

We have traditionally added some extra description where extra devices are fitted and there has always been the word "Regulated".

Be it a battery eliminator, a battery charger, or other device where we have the option of using either the transformers built in ratio or adding extra components to regulate then we always advertise the fact when it is regulated by more than the transformer action.

The power supply regulation can be before or after the transformer with analogue regulation it is normally after the transformer with switch mode regulation normally before the transformer but does not have to be in that order. Switch mode produces less heat which is why we use it but it have one draw back often it will not control from zero current in the main it has a declared minimum.

To me the use of high frequency and regulation are two separate things. Early high frequency "DC Ballasts" used in caravans had no regulation they simply transformed the voltage to something which the fluorescent tube could run on. As with the traditional wire wound ballast these units could overload the tube and shorten it's live or cause the tube to flicker and fail with under voltage.

When the same system was used with commercial florescent tubes a switched mode power supply was included giving a massive input voltage range.

With the electronic units to drive 12 volt quartz halogen lamps there seems to be a general assumption these contain a switch mode power supply however if it did use a switch mode power supply then there would be a wide input voltage tolerance however many units marked 230 - 240 volt where with HF ballast often 170 - 270 volt which clearly needs some switch mode regulation not simply changing the frequency.

My objection is the only way to work out is a switch mode regulator is used is the input voltage range so similar products both using electronics and be called electronic which huge difference in power requirements and bulb/tube life.

It needs some trade description so at a glance we know what we are buying. Call it an Electronic Regulated Transformer or some other name which describes what it is.

As with florescent lamps fit an electronic starter and one can label the whole unit as an electronic florescent lamp which is very different from a HF switch mode regulated florescent lamp.

So all down to a trade description do we really need government to get involved and write what the description should contain?

 

[JohnW2]

A ballast does two jobs it produces the spike of voltage required to strike the tube and also restricts the current once the tube is running so to fit a choke or inductor with same value in Henrys would not necessary replace the ballast and to coin a new name makes sense.

I'm a bit confused. What do you think a traditional 'ballast' (i.e. one intended to be used with a separate starter) is/was, if not just a choke/inductor?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Throughout my career the ones to be wired with starters, whether electronic starters or otherwise have been known as CHOKES, these always had 2 connections Live in and an output to the lamp

Old Transtar units and the units used without starters and with 4 wire output have always been known to me as BALLASTS this is what i was taught and AFAIK Ballasts have been known as that since the 60's and chokes only took off in the 70's

 

[ericmark]

333rocky333 may be correct here. But any choke it normally rated in henry's which is the value required to get the strike voltage but with a florescent the impedance is also important to ensure correct current when running.

With a ballast we select by the florescent tube it's designed to run with impedance and henry's are often not marked on the unit.

When I bought a resistor for my TV which was not marked in ohms it was called a volt dropper not a resistor even though clearly that was what it was. Took me ages to find the value which by luck was same as iron so replaced it with a socket and when we wanted to watch TV plugged the iron in. If I forgot to turn temperature up just at crucial moment thermostat would turn TV off.

Was the iron then a "Switched Mode Power Supply" or a "Transformer"?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Was the iron then a "Switched Mode Power Supply" or a "Transformer"?

It was probably really a 'Steel'.

 

[Monkeh]

333rocky333 may be correct here. But any choke it normally rated in henry's which is the value required to get the strike voltage but with a florescent the impedance is also important to ensure correct current when running.

With a ballast we select by the florescent tube it's designed to run with impedance and henry's are often not marked on the unit.

Well, yes, the construction is important to make it work right

A fluorescent 'choke' or 'ballast', whichever you want to call it, is nothing but a large inductor. That is all there is to them. Yes, they are purpose built to suit the task of striking the arc and then limiting the current, just like the inductors in a switched-mode supply are specified to suit the output voltage, operating frequency, and load current range.. like any other component is specified for the task.

They are just inductors.

 

[JohnW2]

A fluorescent 'choke' or 'ballast', whichever you want to call it, is nothing but a large inductor. That is all there is to them. ... They are just inductors.

That is essentially what I said, and it is true up to a point. The problem arises since, having initially coined the word 'ballast' to refer to something that was simply a choke/inductor (and could just have been called that), we have subsequently seen the word 'ballast' used to refer to other things - some of the wire-wound 'ballasts' were (maybe still are?) step-up auto-transformers (rather than simple chokes/inductors), some had various 'starting technologies' built into them and, of course, now we have 'electronic ballasts'.

AFAICS, that means that the meaning of the word 'ballast', if unqualified, is therefore no longer clear and unambiguous.

Kind Regards, John