Condensation - HELP!!!!

[WSB]

Mentioned this today and they were worried about electric bills. Yep, stupid

 

[dishman]

Exactly, it is always the same....

That is why an explanation of the costs is key.....

Maybe also check they are on a decent tariff.....they could be paying over the odds for gas/electric.

 

[Notch7]

4 young children, the washing machine is probably going every day.

So constant input of moisture from drying clothes!

That is almost certainly the core issue.

Being a terrace house, I wouldnt have thought it would a cold house generally.

If they are worried about the electric cost, they may have the heating down low which is opposite of what you need to eliminate moisture.

 

[crank39]

Mentioned this today and they were worried about electric bills. Yep, stupid

Yep and that's why they don't ventilate, fear of losing all that heat they've just paid for.

2 adults breathe out a pint and a half of water overnight, they have children so theirs goes on top, a pair of wet jeans holds roughly a pint of water, draped over a radiator wheres all that water going to go if they dont open windows, do they shut the door when showering or bathing, is there any mold growing in the bathroom, open the window and check inside the frame where the hinges and locks are, look for mold, are the hinges dry or rusty looking? Extractor hood when cooking, gas produces wet heat, or open windows but they'll be reluctant to do that in this weather for sure

 

[WSB]

Many thanks to all. Just been reading through all comments and there's some great info there. My biggest hurdle is to get them to actually believe me. They pick out petty unrelated stuff and believe that's the problem. I did buy one of those mega moisture traps from screwfix a couple of weeks ago. As well as the current wet walls, window and puddle on sill, that moisture trap had half an inch of water in as well.

 

[Doggit]

Unfortunately LeeFoo, you are fighting a losing battle with this type of tenants. If you can't get them to see reason, then nothing will work, because whatever you do won't work (unless there are enough gaps in each room to let the PIV unit do its job) as they refuse to consider they're at fault.

You certainly need to up your game in terms of landlords legislation etc, and find a new letting agent. Find out what it'll cost you to replace them, and then be tough with them and point out they are ruining the property, and will be in breach of their tenancy if this continues.

 

[WSB]

 

[Doggit]

You could just replace one of the panes to prove it's not the windows, but looking at that, I'd just call then a bunch of effing liars, and kick them out. That level of condensation means they haven't opened the windows since the weather turned cold, and everything in that place will be filling with condensation. A new pane will work better, but you shouldn't be having to contend with those moisture levels.

 

[dishman]

Yep, caused by tenant....

Please show them that leaflet I linked to. Try your best to explain, in the simplest terms.....

People need to realise that during daily living, we produce large amounts of water vapour. Breathing, cooking, washing and yes...if you do it....drying clothes on radiators.

Using that leaflet the average family puts up to 20pints of water into the air.

In older houses, before deouble glazing and insulation, there was enough uncontrolled ventilation for this to dissipate. Leaky windows, uninsulated lofts etc.

As we began to install insulation and more air tight windows, the water vapour gets trapped within the house for longer.

It then condensates on the coldest surface available.

If the house is not heated very well or in an unequal way. It will condensate on cold walls and windows....

I have a feeling that they are not heating the house properly eaither, which is also compounding the issue.

Warm air can hold more water vapour than cold. If the house is not very well heated, it will condensate very quickly on a cold surface.

If the house is heated in bursts i.e very warm, then cold, then very warm, then cold. The same thing will happen.

The house should be kept at a constant warm temperature. This will reduce the amount of condensation on areas of the house that are typically colder.

However, the main culprits are:

1) Drying clothes on a radiator
2) Inadequate heating
3) Lack of extractor in the kitchen
4)Proper use of bathroom extractor, i.e do they always turn the light switch on to power the fan? Does it have an over-run to clear the steam after a shower/bath?

The more we insulate our houses, the more requirement there is for appropriate controlled ventilation to avoid issues such as this.

 

[WSB]

Thanks all.
They have told me in the past that they just put the heating on for an hour at a time when they need it, so like you say, not constant temperature.
Admitidly, I do the same in our house until it gets really cold, then we use the timer.
Never had that problem but then there's just four of us in a four bed detached house (again 1965 build), so plenty of air flow. In their standard size 3 bed mid-terrace there's 2 adults and four kids. Not my cup of tea but who am I to judge.
The only thing playing on my mind is that the the previous (and first) tenants were an elderly couple who used that room for storage. They did say it was colder than the rest of the house but they weren't that bothered as no one was kipping in there.

 

[Diver Fred]

However, the main culprits are:

1) Drying clothes on a radiator
2) Inadequate heating
3) Lack of extractor in the kitchen
4)Proper use of bathroom extractor, i.e do they always turn the light switch on to power the fan? Does it have an over-run to clear the steam after a shower/bath?

5) Lack of through ventilation (- open fires where the best thing ever invented to reduce forced ventilation the heat going up the chimney took an aweful lot of water laden air away).
6) Using bottled gas heaters, or parafin stoves for that matter.

Anyway, do you have an 'EPC' for the property? You will require one before April '19 if you do not have one; the certificate ouight to point towards a probable cause of the condensation if it is inherent in the property. The assessor ought to be helpful in this regard.

Also it does sound like need to join one of the landlord organisations for advice.

 

[Doggit]

I have no heating in my house, and I dry the clothes in the bathroom, and then transfer them to my bedroom when they are half dry, but I have ventilation in all my windows, and not issues whatsoever. North facing wall will always be colder, but we know you're looking or CWI, so it's not a single skin wall that really would be cold.

Heating can cause issues as it allows the air to hold more moisture, and whilst putting the heating on for short periods isn't an issue, it's the lack of ventilation that is.

 

[WSB]

Going to look into the cavity wall insulation as the grants are based on the bill payer. Just hope the 1965 property has cavity walls. Both front and back have tiled sections of the wall between the top and bottom windows and there's breeze blocks behind these tiles. I'm hoping for this age of house there's two layers with a cavity that can be filled. Will get it checked though.

 

[dishman]

Just remember, cavity wall insulation will not solve the issue. It could in fact make the issue more pronounced on areas/surfaces that cannot be insulated. The windows for example will just become even more prone to condensation.

If the cavity is not filled in a consistent way (very probable as there is usually rubble and crap stuck down cavity walls), you could end up with damp spots on the walls. These are cold spots the cavity insulation has missed.

The issue is that water vapour is being produced inside the property and cannot escape. You must resolve that issue first.

You need to change the tenants habits (get them to use a tumble dryer, explaing the cost per hour). Then mitigate the issue in areas that produce the most moisture, bathroom and kitchen (installation of extractor fans). Then you need to show, set and explain the heating controls and ensure they use them more efficiently, keeping the house at a lower, but more consistent temperature.

 

[ronniecabers]

As dishman says , Cavity wall insulation will not solve this issue , nor would new windows, in fact both could create bigger problems unless the underlying issue is dealt with. As others have said , this is clearly an excessive level of airbourne moisture, created through day to day existence and then excerbated by the lack of ventilation /heating. The tenants need to understand that it is not an issue you have caused , nor is it one that you will be able to solve alone. You have a link to the condensation leaflet , print it and give it to them, failing that just send it as an email attachment.

Why should you be going to the expense of installing air extraction systems? ( what is what you will need unless they start to ventilate/heat the property )