Crashing

[ChrisR]

...or software!
Started to be only while doing something busy like macromedia stuff, but now can be almost anytime, say when starting Word or Outlook.

I get
Machine_check_exception
Stop 9c(0,8053f0f0,b2000000,1020080f)

Have reloaded XP
Machine is about 2.5 years old, 2.6GHz , 500M ram, nothing special.
Not running any wierd software at all. No new hardware. A router with a hardware firewall was installed a week ago, but made no difference to the progress of the problem.

When at its worst it won't boot. Just gets to blue screen saying Welcome. This time it has come right up. Can anyone direct me something which tells me about how I can go through booting after F8 in some safe or stepwise mode? Would that show me which driver/bit of hardware was causing the problem?

Surely if I had a memory problem or disk error scandisk or memory checks would have found it?

If it was a central heating boiler I'd resolder its joints, but I think there are rather a lot in there...
I could take it to the computer shop which built it - would they be able to find it with some whizzo program? It crashes "reliably" running arcade games like on "Trusted Tradesmen" forum!

 

[breezer]

no doubt igorian will have the ultimate answer, but have you got something like ad aware? (free net download) it may be something you have picked up?, i also use norton system works (run it from cd) its amazing the things it finds that are wrong. (got muine from police constable world, but only becuse its over the road from me)

also as you have xp, have you tried system restore?

 

[Igorian]

I have no answers for this, but...

If you haven't done so for a while, Try doing a disk cleanup. START>PROGRAMS>ACCESSORIES>SYSTEM TOOLS>Disk Cleanup. Delete all tempfiles, internet files etc.

If you can reliably reproduce the problem, try to run with a simple system. Remove devices one by one, starting with USB and other externals. Try to reproduce the problem after removing each one.

Scandisk is a reasonably weak disk checker. Identify the hard drive manufacturer, go to their website and download their diagnostics program, which will be free for the mainstream makers. Do a quickscan followed by a thorough scan and report back.

 

[ChrisR]

Now it's only getting as far as "Windows is starting up".
Had previously tried defragging, scandisc (which found errors - so...?). Whinge at everything free-so-lets-worry-the-punter utilities find all sorts of things (like ebay) which they warn about but nothing in the serious categories I could see. Registry checker also finds all sorts of things wrong, but don't they always? I'd have thought reinstalling XP should sort out basic problems? (Not that XP runs "repair" properly - you end up having to reinstall , taking 45 minutes or so, but that I assume is because it's microsoft)

Could Restore I suppose but it would have to be to a couple of months ago and a router's been put on - which took a while to set up, since then.

Do delete cookies, temps, etc, weekly.


"try to run with a simple system. Remove devices one by one"
Tried running simple mode with network, assuming that I'd need network to access internet, but not working now. It might tomorrow.
How do you remove devices?

HD says it's a IC35L120A207-1 , so who makes those?

 

[breezer]

HD says it's a IC35L120A207-1 , so who makes those?

google shows nothing for that name but i have to ask, did you actually physically look at the hd?

when igorian says remove devices, i think you will find he means physicaly remove them

put it this way, pretend its a ch heating system and its not working, you have a fault, (lets say keeps blowing fcu fuse) but not 100% sure what is causing it, so you remove things, imersion heater first, then pump etc.

but in the case of a pc, unplug all usb devices, all cards except grapics, yes even remove the sound card, then put the back one at a time (rebooting inbetween) until it goes wrong

as for reinstall windows in 45 mins well done! mine usualy takes an hour

or you could always bite the bullit and format the hd (last resort)

 

[empip]

From here :- http://www.a1freestuff.co.uk/utils.html You could try

A1 Bootlog analyser. This simple little programme will tell you which files are missing or damaged during your boot sequence. Comes with a readme file for instructions

Always worth a try If, possibly, a system file required later, is not loading properly on boot-up.

 

[Igorian]

Now it's only getting as far as "Windows is starting up".
Had previously tried defragging, scandisc (which found errors - so...?). Whinge at everything free-so-lets-worry-the-punter utilities find all sorts of things (like ebay) which they warn about but nothing in the serious categories I could see. Registry checker also finds all sorts of things wrong, but don't they always? I'd have thought reinstalling XP should sort out basic problems? (Not that XP runs "repair" properly - you end up having to reinstall , taking 45 minutes or so, but that I assume is because it's microsoft)

Could Restore I suppose but it would have to be to a couple of months ago and a router's been put on - which took a while to set up, since then.

Do delete cookies, temps, etc, weekly.


"try to run with a simple system. Remove devices one by one"
Tried running simple mode with network, assuming that I'd need network to access internet, but not working now. It might tomorrow.
How do you remove devices?

HD says it's a IC35L120A207-1 , so who makes those?

Yes, some utilities are misleading, however, the manufacturer utils are very good and will indicate if something is wrong with the drive. Drives are a weak point in machines and, considering how much can be crammed on a drive these days, is not very surprising.

The hard drive is an IBM variety made by Hitachi. You can find diagnostic applications here.

You mentioned pressing F8 at startup. Have you then selected Safe Mode from the menu? Does the problem happen when running in safe mode?

If you can get the machine to start, you can run MSCONFIG (START>RUN and type msconfig and press ENTER) to selectively remove drivers from the startup list. This will be very long winded and may not get you results.

You could always try a windows repair instead of a fresh install, ie., As you mentioned, it does appear to be reloading Windws, but it is only actually replacing they system files but leaving the registry intact. If you have installed loads of junk over the years, you might want to consider a fresh start. If you know that the problem didn't exists before the last restore point, what has happened since?

When I mentioned 'remove devices', I meant physically unplugging all USBs, eventually running a machine with just a video adaptor and hard drive.

It's always difficult to diagnose something you can't see.

 

[ChrisR]

Thanks chaps. Well it's come up ok this morning. Intermittent faults on boilers are a pain too!
There's really nothing much to remove. Sound card, yes, (I assume it has one!). No usb devices whatsoever. No games, no junk software, basically just Office. Parallel printer. Presumably it's won't be eg a floppy drive or printer as it isn't being used..? There's Blueyonder - can't remember if that comes with drivers/software....

The problem hasn't happened in safe mode but I haven't run it long like that because it isn't much use to me without internet.

As I said, I don't think I can use System Restore - I'd lose internet connection.

WIndows repair doesn't run by itself - it checks a list of files but every time goes into a full installation. I'm sure I had run Repair by itself in the past!

I'll have a go at the things you've mentioned if it plays long enough, and report back.

 

[2scoops0406]

Well, unfortunately the exception reported seems to suggest that you may have a memory error or CPU cache error. Depending on how much memory you have, and it's configuration, you could try removing DIMM's in order to test this theory, but obviously depending on your memory configuration this may not be an option. Obviously you can't remove the CPU.

As has been suggested before though, remove the hardware piece by piece and see if this isolates the problem.

 

[ChrisR]

Cheers!
There's only one half gig dimm.
Is there any point removing dvd/cd/floppy drives?

 

[Igorian]

Have a look at this link (search the resulting page for 9C to get to your related error condition).

As Ed has mentioned, it would appear that memory is a key point, however, it does mention overheating and bad power. PSUs can be difficult to diagnose properly without a scope (unless it just went bang ), but are also a common point of failure. Also, have you noticed any problems with your fans?

 

[Igorian]

Cheers!
There's only one half gig dimm.
Is there any point removing dvd/cd/floppy drives?

Just remove power to these devices.

 

[ChrisR]

Have checked in Control panel/admin, and found lots of error records, mostly different, like

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Ci
Event Category: CI Service
Event ID: 4127
Date: 27/12/2005
Time: 12:47:24
User: N/A
Computer: CHRIS-etc
Description:
Content index on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci could not be initialized. Error 3221225477.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 27/12/2005
Time: 12:32:00
User: N/A
Computer: CHRIS-etc

Description:
Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2800.1106, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.1106, fault address 0x000267cd.

KB article on error 9C sounds pretty damning of the cpu department. Don't know of fan/overheating problems but I'll turn it off (it never normally gets switched off) and let it all cool.

I have a scope I could put on the PSU, but that sounds unlikely - don't even know what voltages they should be these days! When I was a lad it was all 5 volts... Do cpu's or memory dimms make bad connections in their sockets? ANy point trying to clean the contacts - meths?
Maybe if I got the pipe freezer to it....?

I think I must be sounding like the guys with dodgy boilers who don't want to go in and measure, say, if they have any volts on their gas valves. Must admit I'm reluctant to go in there disconnecting sound cards etc

 

[Igorian]

Most PSUs in off the shelf systems or even most self builds are generally of the cheap variety. I've scoped a few and they can be quite noisy as opposed to having bad regulation. People upgrade, often with little regard to the power requirements. Graphic adaptors are one of the most overlooked. Some of the latest models have huge demands and are often supplied with a direct power input socket to try and overcome bus restrictions.

Anything in a socket will eventually suffer from thermal creep. I wouldn't recommend cleaning the mem slots with anything, but a good blow can do wonders , and then reseating them. Also reseat any cables and also any PCI/AGP devices.

While I cannot dismiss the processor, this is one of the more reliable components, given it's complexity, as long as correct cooling is supplied.

I was re-reading your earlier post with regard to the reasons for not doing a system restore. As you have a router, the connection settings should be stored here. I am assuming also that it connects to your NIC as opposed to being USB? If so, you should also be able to run in safe mode with network support, so you can run a minimal machine and still have internet.

Edit. I am assuming also you are running XP Home with SP2 and all critical updates in place?

 

[ChrisR]

Ran the System Restore Wizard - there are no restore points other than yesterday to restore to, although it is and has been set to set restore points automatically (daily). Maximum space is allowed for restore points - er that's over 12Gigs...

Lots of fluff around the memory dimm, which is slot 3 of 3 (OK??). Took it out and wiped edge connector with meths, blew lots of fluff out, put back in same slot.

Power supply fan and CPU fan seem fine, though I see there's another fan sitting in the bottom of the box not plugged in. Box is about 500 high, that fan is down where there's space for about 3 or 4 more 3.5 inch drives.

Have had the pc off much of the day to cool, with sides off.

Bootlog.txt referred to in post above isn't for XP, which instead has (if I get it right) NTBTLOG This has hundreds of entries of things which did and also did not run - whether that's by design or fault I don't know. Most of them don't mean anyting to me.

The PC is now taking well over a minute with "Windows is starting up" on the screen - which it never used to. Eventakes this long in safe mode. Possibly things are failing and timing out?

Remembered there's an extra net card installed. The instant I disabled it in device manager , crash! May or may not be coincidence. Later:- might have been the wrong one will try the other one later!

CLicked C: properties- tools-check the disk (can't quote it correectly and don't want to look for fear of making it too busy!!) with both boxes ticked. Took ages so didnlt watch it all. Left it checking the empty space , when I came back the pc had rebooted so didn't see any report.

More often than not it does eventually "come up" ok, but if I do anything which makes it busy it crashes. Copying a load of files will do it - usually.

Auto updates from MS are enabled but doing a manual check made it crash.

Will now try Safe + net mode to see if it crashes. I bet it will.

I'm told there are memory checking utilities which check all combinations - all 0's., all 1's , AAAA/5555 etc - anyone know where?


Later - Result, of a sort. In Safe + Network mode, stooging around the MS site made it crash. In safe mode, tried copying 2000+ files, can't make it crash at all.So now what?