CU in loft?

[bonebill]

I can imagine the eyes rolling up already

Small single storey house (but detached, and on a fair sized plot, and in a reasonably good location, hence reason for purchase). No convenient place to put the CU in the main part of the house, but there is a plenty big loft, which is where most of the wiring will be anyway.

So I was wondering about putting the CU in the loft.

If it's a no-no, then I'd be interested to know what the actual sticking point was, because it may be possible to address that by some other means.

(keywords: consumer unit loft )

 

[breezer]

where is it now then?

not to mention distance form REC main fuse, and what will you do when an mcb trips and its dark (but to get round that you could have an emergency light)

 

[nstreet]

I can imagine the eyes rolling up already

Small single storey house (but detached, and on a fair sized plot, and in a reasonably good location, hence reason for purchase). No convenient place to put the CU in the main part of the house, but there is a plenty big loft, which is where most of the wiring will be anyway.

So I was wondering about putting the CU in the loft.

If it's a no-no, then I'd be interested to know what the actual sticking point was, because it may be possible to address that by some other means.

(keywords: consumer unit loft )

If you have a partner or children, how do they feel about getting into the loft to reset a tripped mcb if you're not about?

 

[Big_Spark]

So long as the loft is water tight and all environmental conditions are met, there is no reason why the CU cannot go in the loft.

The sticking point will be suppling the CU with power. You will need to calculate the Volt drop for the sub main feeding it and size the cable appropriately. If you have a 100A supply and 25mm tails to your meter, then the supply from your meter to your CU may need to be increased to 35mm to meet the requirements of the Regs (It may not, but possibly will)

You are opening a potential can of worms and would suggets that you at least get the opinion, via a quote, of an electrical contractor in your area who will be able to advise you if it is feasible, it may not be in your property. None of us can give you a diffinitive answer as we have not "seen" the job.

 

[Jaymack]

CU must be readily accessible, loft location is a definite no.

 

[Big_Spark]

CU must be readily accessible, loft location is a definite no.

Bullshit.

 

[plugwash]

apparently its only a single story house so a run up to the loft won't be a great deal longer than say a CU just below the ceiling (which is quite common afaict)

though i would personally consider having a CU in the loft to be a huge pain in the arse whenever anything trips can't you just put it just below the ceiling somewhere?

 

[Jaymack]

CU must be readily accessible, loft location is a definite no.

bulls**t.

There is a knee jerk reaction and made in ignorance, I wouldn't make such rash statements.

Off the top of my head these are valid reasons
OSG, P64 (xv) Adequacy of access to switchgear and equipment. This would warrant a code 1, IMO.
Future owner who is physically handicapped.
Equipment and cables in loft may be adversely affected, (increased ambient temperature).
A fault in the CU causing burning, would not be as detectible. (More probable in CU).
Etc.

 

[TeesdaleSpark]

The consumer unit needs to be accessible. Accessibility is often a matter of opinion but if your loft isn't boarded and you need a ladder to get in then I don't think you could argue that it was accessible.

Another point is that cables need to be derated when running in your loft insulation. For your typical lighting circuit 1.5 twin and earth is ok but for other circuits this could be a problem depending on the routing of your circuits.

 

[Big_Spark]

You are assuming that his loft is not accessible. He may have a loft ladder access, and this is no more of a pain for access than say a basement or a unit buried behind piles of crap in a cupboard under the stairs.

Jaymack, if you actually read my original post I stated that all environmental conditions should be satisfied.

You stated that loft location was a definite NO..this is bullshit, my comment, whilst short sweet and to the point, was not a knee jerk reaction.

If the loft required special access provisions then I would advise against such a location, but if there is an installed loft ladder then this, as I have said, would be no more or less accessible than many CU's in existing properties.

This situation would be no different to locating a CU in an adjoining Garage where there is no inter-connecting door, forcing the occupiers to go outside to access their CU.

The comment about the future resident who may be physically handicapped is also a red herring, many properties have CU's in locations that most if not all physcially handicapped people would find very difficult if not impossible to access, comments like this will inspire the IEE to make a ruling that all switchgear has to be 1400mm from finished floor level if your not careful.

 

[Jaymack]

You are assuming that his loft is not accessible. He may have a loft ladder access, and this is no more of a pain for access than say a basement or a unit buried behind piles of rubbish in a cupboard under the stairs.

Jaymack replied- Sorry, you are compounding the felony.

If the loft required special access provisions then I would advise against such a location, but if there is an installed loft ladder then this, as I have said, would be no more or less accessible than many CU's in existing properties.

Jaymack replied- Ditto

This situation would be no different to locating a CU in an adjoining Garage where there is no inter-connecting door, forcing the occupiers to go outside to access their CU.

Jaymack replied- Oh yes there is.

The comment about the future resident who may be physically handicapped is also a red herring, many properties have CU's in locations that most if not all physcially handicapped people would find very difficult if not impossible to access, comments like this will inspire the IEE to make a ruling that all switchgear has to be 1400mm from finished floor level if your not careful.

Jaymack replied- All the teaching on the regulations: 2381, 2391 et al, implicitly state that one must design (and inspect etc.) an installation, with the present, or future occupants in mind, this includes the safety aspects for persons and property. You are once again advocating compounding the proverbial.

Finally, Jaymack replied, As far as the positioning of DB's is concerned, strict guidelines are sadly amiss from the regulations. Too often, have we all seen these DB's:- mounted inches from the floor, inside cupboards for explorative, little fingers; to the side of shallow cupboards, to the rear of deep cupboards protected by Daddies favourite sauce etc. A nightmare for the poor inspector, among others, when doing a PIR.

Bend over, I'll drive.

__________________________
moderator

edited to correct quotes

 

[Big_Spark]

Jaymack, perhaps you could learn to use the quote function properly as decifering your post is painful.

I agree on the Regulation regarding the placement of DB's, however you have said nothing that would prevent a unit from being placed in a loft. You clearly stated this must not be done, yet you have failed to justify this statement. I have clearly stated my case, I do not advocate the placing of an DB in any location that would mean access was an issue, but the loft of any house is equally a valid location so long as they are allowed to be placed in damp and dreary basements, Garages and locations susceptable to environmental conditions that have not been properly addressed at the design stage..

And the NICEIC is partially responsible for this as they do not state that member compnaies do not install in given locations, which they can and should do.

My personal preference is to place any DB in a domestic in a location that is accessible to all occupants (adults), but is so located that the unit is not going to be blocked from access by placing in a cupboard, subject to adverse environmental conditions, moisture from steam etc, and also tampering by little fingers.

This is often very difficult, as people do not want their DB's on show and often you are constrained by the location of their service head and/or any existing DB etc.

 

[Jaymack]

Jaymack came down from the mountain and uttered the following:
I'm sick of carrying this f*****g tablet up and down.

Have you got the spell check on????

MOD

down boy

 

[bonebill]

Thank-you for the replies.

It was most helpful to have it nailed down to various concrete issues.

Accessibility for potential future occupants would very much seem to apply here. The best access to the loft would be a dedicated ladder (i.e. a folding ladder attached near the loft hatch), and the loft space isn't clear of obstructions; you need to be able bend down and get under cross-beams.

The length of the tails would probably be less of an issue as it is a single storey. The tail length would be vastly much longer than a CU just below the ceiling.

(Interestingly a CU just below the ceiling would not be too good for a disabled occupant.)

Have done some more hard thinking and what we may probably do is to put the CU in the side of an alcove containing the a washing machine and an underfloor heating manifold. (The alcove was originally going to be the airing cupboard but now the HW tank is going somewhere else.) The CU will be above the other two, to stop leaks falling in to it.

 

[bonebill]

I can imagine that putting a CU in a loft would be almost impossible to fit in with all the relevant rules.

In any case, starting an inspection in a loft isn't going to put the inspecting person in a good mood