Decent water based general undercoat ?

[michealangelo]

Is leyland acrylic ok over oil based primer like zinser cover stain or shellac zinser red bin if spot primed ?

This time of year its going to take a long time for old school oil undercoat to dry ...I know the oil system from primer to top coat is preferred but needs must

Are any of the zinser aqua , all coats worth using as undercoat?

Cheers

 

[michealangelo]

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lickpro-1ltr-white-matt-interior-exterior-multi-surface-primer-undercoat/518ge

I thought leyland trade after looking through a few posts on here but what about this ?

I have keyed an exterior wooden board , painted in green gloss

Cleaned off

I coat of zinser cover stain .....Friday is a good weather day so thought I would try to get 2 coats of undercoat on that to build it up for a white exterior gloss finish

So either the leyland trade , maybe this lick pro or zinser all coat or aqua etc ?

Cheers

 

[opps]

I like the Leyland Trade acrylic primer/undercoat because it is a dream to sand (doesn't clog my abrasives). Colour obliteration is very poor though.

I tend to only use it as a primer.

I am currently painting the outside of customers' houses. I use the oil based Dulux Trade Weathershield undercoat. Here in London, it is forecast to be 25 degrees on Friday. I will be able to apply two coats of undercoat. The second coat can be applied after 4 (or less hours). Ordinarily, they, from memory, recommend 6 hours.

You can add Terebene to oil based paint to accelerate the drying process.

Depending on the quality of brush that you use, 2 coats may suffice. 3 coats definitely should (again, it depends on your brush and technique).

I don't know of any waterbased primers that will obliterate dark colours faster (read:more efficiently) than oil based undercoats. I am on old skool decorator though.

 

[michealangelo]

I like the Leyland Trade acrylic primer/undercoat because it is a dream to sand (doesn't clog my abrasives). Colour obliteration is very poor though.

I tend to only use it as a primer.

I am currently painting the outside of customers' houses. I use the oil based Dulux Trade Weathershield undercoat. Here in London, it is forecast to be 25 degrees on Friday. I will be able to apply two coats of undercoat. The second coat can be applied after 4 (or less hours). Ordinarily, they, from memory, recommend 6 hours.

You can add Terebene to oil based paint to accelerate the drying process.

Depending on the quality of brush that you use, 2 coats may suffice. 3 coats definitely should (again, it depends on your brush and technique).

I don't know of any waterbased primers that will obliterate dark colours faster (read:more efficiently) than oil based undercoats. I am on old skool decorator though.

Dulux used to do an acrylic weathershield in grey I think ?

Yes I tend to have belief in oil based paints if outside but there's always the weather affecting the surface and of course drying times

 

[88v8]

Is leyland acrylic ok over oil based primer like zinser cover stain or shellac zinser red bin if spot primed ?

This time of year its going to take a long time for old school oil undercoat to dry ...I know the oil system from primer to top coat is preferred but needs must

Depends how much the customer matters to you.
Waterbase will not bind well to oil, even if abraded and sugar soaped.
It won't come off tomorrow, but it won't last.

Terebene driers will accelerate the drying of oil, and by the time you've got one oil undercoat on there and two tops - my fave is Sikkens AZ Rubbol - the nice green will be well covered with the boring white.

That said, on my own house I only use oil to the north where the sun won't destroy it. But that would mean burning off your old oil, time and weather not your friend.

 

[michealangelo]

Depends how much the customer matters to you.
Waterbase will not bind well to oil, even if abraded and sugar soaped.
It won't come off tomorrow, but it won't last.

Terebene driers will accelerate the drying of oil, and by the time you've got one oil undercoat on there and two tops - my fave is Sikkens AZ Rubbol - the nice green will be well covered with the boring white.

That said, on my own house I only use oil to the north where the sun won't destroy it. But that would mean burning off your old oil, time and weather not your friend.

Driers weaken oil gloss ?

 

[michealangelo]

Driers weaken oil gloss ?

What about oil top coat over 2 water based undercoat?

 

[88v8]

What about oil top coat over 2 water based undercoat?

It won't fall off but neither will it last. And whoever does the next repaint will curse it, as they will have to sand off the non-adhering oil.

Driers weaken oil gloss ?

No. No negative effect. Some painters routinely add driers to oils, given how the climate stuff has reduced the chemicals that used to make them dry in a reasonable time.

 

[opps]

I never used Terebene until Jan 2010. That was when the EU reduced the levels of VOCs in paints. I was painting cabinets in a regular customer's home. The next day the oil based eggshell paint was still tacky.

I have seen people state that driers make the paint more brittle. After 15 years of using terebene both indoors and outdoors, I have not seen any evidence of paint failing prematurely or not. That said, oil based paints in the immediate aftermath of the 2010 VOC compliance were awful to work with. It took 2 or 3 years for the likes of Dulux to improve the formulation.

Apropos grey waterbased undercoat, I have only ever used the waterbased versions when priming MDF prior to applying dark green colours (eg mid Brunswick green). To be honest, I found the regular Dulux Trade grey undercoat/primer to be easier to sand back than their white version, it did clog the abrasives, but less so.

Personally, based on person experience, at cold, rainy times of the year, I would rather apply oil based paints. A couple of years ago I applied DT Weathershield masonry paint on a cold day. It wasn't forecast to rain for 5 hours. The rain washed away some of the masonry paint (onto the paving...).

On reflection I should have applied oil based masonry paint.

In short, rain will wash away wet waterbased paint. Oil based paints, heavy rain might leave slight dimples in the finish (which can be lightly sanded back when the paint is dry).

In my experience, light rain makes less difference to oil based undercoat than waterbased undercoat. Oil based undercoat is a different proposition to oil based gloss. On horizontal surfaces, heavy rain creates craters in soft (read: wet) gloss paint, the edges of those craters become dirty really quickly. I have never quite understood why. Annoyingly, one has to wait 3 or 4 days to sand them (the edges of the craters) back with 180-240 grit silicone carbide paper flat

 

[michealangelo]

I never used Terebene until Jan 2010. That was when the EU reduced the levels of VOCs in paints. I was painting cabinets in a regular customer's home. The next day the oil based eggshell paint was still tacky.

I have seen people state that driers make the paint more brittle. After 15 years of using terebene both indoors and outdoors, I have not seen any evidence of paint failing prematurely or not. That said, oil based paints in the immediate aftermath of the 2010 VOC compliance were awful to work with. It took 2 or 3 years for the likes of Dulux to improve the formulation.

Apropos grey waterbased undercoat, I have only ever used the waterbased versions when priming MDF prior to applying dark green colours (eg mid Brunswick green). To be honest, I found the regular Dulux Trade grey undercoat/primer to be easier to sand back than their white version, it did clog the abrasives, but less so.

Personally, based on person experience, at cold, rainy times of the year, I would rather apply oil based paints. A couple of years ago I applied DT Weathershield masonry paint on a cold day. It wasn't forecast to rain for 5 hours. The rain washed away some of the masonry paint (onto the paving...).

On reflection I should have applied oil based masonry paint.

In short, rain will wash away wet waterbased paint. Oil based paints, heavy rain might leave slight dimples in the finish (which can be lightly sanded back when the paint is dry).

In my experience, light rain makes less difference to oil based undercoat than waterbased undercoat. Oil based undercoat is a different proposition to oil based gloss. On horizontal surfaces, heavy rain creates craters in soft (read: wet) gloss paint, the edges of those craters become dirty really quickly. I have never quite understood why. Annoyingly, one has to wait 3 or 4 days to sand them (the edges of the craters) back with 180-240 grit silicone carbide paper flat

I ended up using cover stain today , it dries to rain damage resistance in 1 hour and I am not glossing till Tuesday so it can harden off