Dishwasher and Washing Machine

[masamune]

At present I have a washing machine plugged on a single gang socket behind it, under the work top. That space is on the right of the sink. For some reason the fused 13A switch for the socket is under the left side of the sink compartment.

I am fitting a slim standalone dishwasher unit under the left side of the sink (the flat part of the sink).

|--------------|-------|
| DW | SINK | WM |
| | | |
| | | |

There are two issues, firstly I need to move the fused spur of the WM so that I can have access to it, or it will be behind the DW.

Secondly I need another socket for the DW and separate 13A spur for protection. I could pull the DW cable behind the cupboard void and connect to another available socket. But i) it will be behind the fridge ii) no spur.

I was thinking of a wall mounted configuration as it can all be laid on the wall under the worktop to save from chasing wires into the wall. The circuit is the ring of the ground floor sockets, protected by a 32A MCB and CB has dual RCDs.

1. What is the best/easiest configuration to have both connected?

2. Any chance the simultaneous load of the DW/WM would cause any problems?

 

[ekmdgrf]

1. What is the best/easiest configuration to have both connected?

Sounds like you need to plug it in behind the freezer. If I understand correctly, there's a free socket there already? You don't need a seperate spur [read: FCU], since the 13A protection is provided by the fuse in the plug.

2. Any chance the simultaneous load of the DW/WM would cause any problems?

Depends what that load is and what the loading of the rest of the circuit is. Check the appliances to see what current they draw. If the stuff you'll be using simultaneously adds up to >= 32A, you're going to have fun.

One thing that might be worth double checking is that the sockets you're going to be using are actually on the ring and not some arrangement of a lengthy spur off the ring.

 

[masamune]

I was thinking the same, but how to isolate the DW if the appliance has a problem or fries up? If I take the ring down it will affect a lot of devices.

Also about the WM FCU that will be behind the DW, can I extend that and place a wall mounted one on the side chipboard, i.e away from the sink plumbing?

In terms of the sockets, I have checked with the spurs around and they remain live, so they must be part of the main ring but hard to tell what their wiring is like inside the wall...

Load-wise, I am not sure of the WM it's a modern Panasonic (NA-168VG4). The DW is a Bosch SPS53E12GB, manual shows KWh per programme cycle. Based on the time length (h) of each programme I calculate fractions of 1 Kw mostly, with one program requiring 1.5Kw but it's a very short demanding programme that'd be unlikely to use.

The ring is mainly lamps, TV and small devices, but unfortunately shared with the kitchen till I have it done properly and separated (though the oven is separate). I think that if both appliance are on and I use a Kw mixer it will probably trip the MCB...

 

[JohnW2]

I was thinking the same, but how to isolate the DW if the appliance has a problem or fries up? If I take the ring down it will affect a lot of devices.

True, but that would be only an very rare occurrence, and you'd only have to leave the ring isolated for long enough to pull out the WM and plug it.

In terms of the sockets, I have checked with the spurs around and they remain live, so they must be part of the main ring ....

I don't fully understand that - could you perhaps give a little more explanation as to how you have concluded that the sockets are part of the ring?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ekmdgrf]

I was thinking the same, but how to isolate the DW if the appliance has a problem or fries up? If I take the ring down it will affect a lot of devices.

I think if your dishwasher catches fire, you've got bigger problems than the TV going off. Unless of course they're showing that episode of Itchy and Scratchy where Scratchy finally gets Itchy.

Also about the WM FCU that will be behind the DW, can I extend that and place a wall mounted one on the side chipboard, i.e away from the sink plumbing?

I don't see why not, as long as you can securely fix the socket to the chipboard. Chipboard isn't known for it's strength.

In terms of the sockets, I have checked with the spurs around and they remain live, so they must be part of the main ring but hard to tell what their wiring is like inside the wall...

I'm afraid, like JohnW2, I don't really understand this bit.

Load-wise, I am not sure of the WM it's a modern Panasonic (NA-168VG4). The DW is a Bosch SPS53E12GB, manual shows KWh per programme cycle. Based on the time length (h) of each programme I calculate fractions of 1 Kw mostly, with one program requiring 1.5Kw but it's a very short demanding programme that'd be unlikely to use.

The ring is mainly lamps, TV and small devices, but unfortunately shared with the kitchen till I have it done properly and separated (though the oven is separate). I think that if both appliance are on and I use a Kw mixer it will probably trip the MCB...

You should crunch the numbers. I roughly estimate that to be a load of somewhere in the region of 20A, gives a fair bit of room if the rest of the load is lamps.

 

[masamune]

To clarify, the note for the sockets above related to ekmdgrf comment about not having a lengthy spur off the ring.

Simply meant that existing spurs in the kitchen do not turn off those sockets but only the appliances they are appointed to.

 

[JohnW2]

To clarify, the note for the sockets above related to ekmdgrf comment about not having a lengthy spur off the ring. Simply meant that existing spurs in the kitchen do not turn off those sockets but only the appliances they are appointed to.

I presume that the 'spurs' you're talking about turning off are Fused Connection Units (FCUs)? The word 'spur' is normally used to refer to the cable which comes from a ring circuit to supply a socket (or, if it goes via a FCU, possibly more than one socket).

I think the concern of some of us, including ekmdgrf, is that some of your sockets might be on unfused spurs, which you would not be able to identify as such because there would not be anything (i.e. an FCU) to 'switch off'. You really need to get an electrician to determine, by testing, if that is the case before you can know what you can do safely, and in compliance with regulations.

Kind Regards, John