Down strairs radiators

[Simonj1]

I’m after some advise if anyone can please help me.
I moved into an old house and there were no radiators upstairs apart from in the bathroom. There were old radiators downstairs. We had a new Boiler fitted down stairs and radiators and new pipe work upstairs, and these radiators get very not. From the boiler it looks like a return and flow 2 pipe system so no issues.

The downstairs radiators do not heat up well. They are the old originals but I’m sure that’s not the reason. These radiators down stairs don’t get that hot when they are all on especially when upstairs radiators are on. The last radiator in the front room barely heats up, the downstairs ones do get warmer if you turn off the some of the radiators down stairs. There are no pipes coming down from the rads upstairs directly to the radiators down stairs. It looks like each return and flow pipes come from the boiler and branch off and go both upstairs and down. the 2 that feed down stairs each connect to the original feed that was already therefor the downstairs rads, one connects to a smaller pipe but the other seems to connect to a pipe the same size. They then go into the ground and I assume they then hit the first down stairs radiator. I have shown a picture of these downstairs pipes from the boiler. The plumber used the original feed and I don't think he touched any downstairs pipework

When the work was done I recall the plumber saying that it was an old 1 pipe system and the water naturally pushes upstairs. But as mentioned above it looks like 2 pipes feed down stairs , so im not sure how it can be a 1 pipe system as it looks like return and flow. Also when the rads down stairs heat you don't have to wait for one to fully heat before another starts heating which was how I thought the 1 pipe system work, but I may be wrong.

I'm after some advise on how I can get these down stairs rads to work fully and heat up to maximum heat. so I'm wondering if I need to connect the upstairs rads to the down stairs or can I have a separate feed from down stairs to give this maximum heat out put?

If any one has any advise I would really appreciate it!

many thanks!

 

[terryplumb]

You could try turning down the lockshields on all upstairs rads .
If you turn off the TRV' s on all upstairs rads ,do downstairs all heat fully ?

 

[Simonj1]

Hi terry
Thanks for taking a look
when all the upstairs thermostats are off they heat better but still not great. I will try turning all the lock shields and see what happens.I think it’s the set up of the pipe work maybe? By the fact the plumber mentioned 1 pipe system but I’m not sure. Do I have to connect upstairs rads to downstairs? Is that how they should be set up?

thanks again

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Its possible that yourdownstairs rads are installed as 1 pipe - where hot water leaves the boiler and goes through each radiator in series (usually with a bypass pipe) before returning to the boiler.
Fiddly to get working properly, if the pipes are the same age as the rads (cast iron?) they may be full of crud or it may just be that the system needs balancing (use lockshields on the upstairs rads to restrict flow to them, you should get more flow to downstairs).

 

[Simonj1]

Thanks!

I was just confused as it it looks like two pipes coming from the boiler to the downstairs radiators and each rad downstairs has 2 pipes that goes into the ground. but you are saying this is possible? There is an old cast iron one but also 3 newer ones

we are looking at getting an extension done so it maybe the time to sort out the issues. If we sort out the pipe work do we need to connect the upstairs rads to downstairs ones? Or can we create a new 2 pipe system down stairs? I want to avoid having to rip up floor boards upstairs and damage the ceiling by connecting down to up stairs

I appreciate your help!

 

[oldbutnotdead]

There will always be a feed from the boiler and a return to it. In domestic installs the feed and return go to each radiator. Larger installs (board schools, churches) tended to have a large dia feed tube coming from the boiler, looping round the building and returning to the boiler. Each radiator has 2 pipes both connected to that feed tube, ones i've seen used directional Ts.
For the future, all you have to do is get new 'normal'feed and return from the ground floor rads to the boiler. Up to you whether to mess about with zone valves, smart rad valves are the way forward. No need to touch upstairs stuff (apart from draining and bleeding before/after downstairs work done)

 

[Simonj1]

Thanks for the advise!!

so i guess I can look at getting rid of the old one pipe system downstairs and creating a 2 pipe system without needing to connect pipes to the upstairs. But do u know if you get better heating if you connect to the upstairs rads or is there no difference?
Thanks!

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Downstairs will be connected to upstairs- at the boiler. If using copper, the conventional setup is 22mm feed and return from bolier to each floor, then 15mm Ts to each radiator. If using plastic, most cost-effective method is again 22 from boiler to each floor then a manifold with 15mm going to & from each rad (placcie couplers are expensive, bulky, ugly and best not buried due to having moving parts).
Efficiency- proper pipe and rad sizing is the key, in a normal sized house flow losses shouldn't be significant.

 

[Simonj1]

Hi there, I really appreciate your reply. Do u have and advise on burying pipes ? If we go this I guess we have to bury the pipes under a new solid floor, is this advisable?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Pipes under solid floor is doable if you have to- either use ducting and placcie or cast a trench and use placcie or copper. There may be other options (pipes behind skirting boards, drops from upstairs through redundant chimney flues or boxed in in a corner).
Chopping into a ceiling and making good afterwards is fairly cheap and easy (unless you've gone mad with ceiling paper or coving), you need to find a good local heating engineer to have a good look at the place & price for what you want

 

[Simonj1]

thanks for the reply, I will have a think about it and speak to an engineer