FIXING FOR BREEZE BLOCK
- Thread starter Khris
- Start date
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Regards the use of glue type of materials for securing lugs ans Rawlplugs. Some plastic plugs still made by Rawlplugs. Using a glue and waiting over r night is not always possible. A couple of other ways are use a filler / spackle either the type you mix with water or a two part epoxy or similar type or fast setting cement, If you can include some sort of fibre in the mix and tamp it well in so much the better then insert the screws. Fibre would be something like teased out string or fine wood shavings.If using fast cement you only have 3 minutes to work with it so prepare fibre first. Hope this helps Oh by the way fixing battens to wall first still needs plugs and screws first . J.M.
Yeh I had a good result with that method,I had a few miles of spur shelving to put up in a big office the wall's were brick but very very crumbly and I was only getting about 10% good fixing's,I gunned in loads of dec's filler into every hole and finished the job as normal ,I tested a day or so later with an 18v impact rock solid, result
LOL at angry Chippy moaning about the 'Construction Industry' being attacked. We are in a recession, people are feeling the pinch and this is a DIY forum. If people were able to feel 100% confident they would not get ripped off and that all trades would do a top job then there would be less DIY. Alas for every star we invite into our homes we get some blagging clown who does a barely acceptable job and overcharges.
Lots of good advice in here and occasionally some that raises questions but it is a DIY thread and that is why people come here. They can then consider the advice, ideally from people with experience and then decide whether they can carry out the work themselves or employ someone recommended to them.
If as Tradesmen we all do the best work we can for a fair price and all work to ensure that the cowboys and thieves find it much harder to operate then the 'Construction Industry' will flourish.
Lots of good advice in here and occasionally some that raises questions but it is a DIY thread and that is why people come here. They can then consider the advice, ideally from people with experience and then decide whether they can carry out the work themselves or employ someone recommended to them.
If as Tradesmen we all do the best work we can for a fair price and all work to ensure that the cowboys and thieves find it much harder to operate then the 'Construction Industry' will flourish.
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fischer sleeve anchors
This is a good tip and got me thinking along same lines.
I had to fix some IKEA wardrobes to a wall which is skim plaster on very fragile thick render on very old crumbly bricks (100+ years old). Suspect I was trying to fix 80% in the mortar and already using 60mm screws.
Drilling through fixing aperture on wardrobe at arms length means it is difficult to hold drill steady to get a tight hole for a rawlplug. Having spent hours getting them true to very p*ss*d walls and blocked up means that I do not want to remove them to access the wall. Trying to drill through crumbly brick on hammer action not likely to get a good clean hole either.
I tried using the Fischer High Performance UX plugs and they very nearly worked but started to turn in the 6 parts sand to 1 part cement (!!) mortar.
Since it would be difficult to poke no-more-nails into the screw hole, I thought it would be easier to apply adhesive onto rawlplug and poke that into the hole. I used a 60mm screw just into the plug so I could hold it in my hand properly and insert it easily into the hole.
I had a spare Celcon block so tested the following on a baggy 8mm hole (Fischer plug needs a 6mm hole).
Make sure you remove all the brick bits and dust (I used a 4mm aquarium brush (e.g. ebay)and the Fischer blow pump (for resin fixings e.g. Screwfix: with a drinking straw pushed in the end of the tube so it can reach into the back of the smaller drilled hole.
I left it overnight to set.
Hot melt glue (Loctite)
5 minute (although really 3hr) Araldite
Gorilla glue (stone, metal, wood version) and remember to moisten plug slightly before use as per glue instructions
Evostik Serious Stuff Ultra
The problem is getting enough gloop on the plug to set in a ragged hole, since a lot simply squeezes off when you poke the plug into the hole.
The Gorilla foamed out of the front of the hole as it expands 3 to 4 times its volume: it was never going to work without "clamping" (as they stipulate), but I have used it so successfully on other jobs so I wanted to persevere.
I know it's fiddly, but when you are desperate... I then tried adding a collar (ca. 4mm) of hot melt glue around the front of the plug (having FIRST worked the Gorilla into the rear expanding slots and then wound a generous layer around it (you can only get a thinnish layer as it falls off)).
I pushed the plug home immediately so that the hot melt could set in place (after 2 mins) - long before the Gorilla started to expand. Once cooled, the hot melt successfully stopped the Gorilla glue escaping.
Next morning....the Araldite and Evo Stik pulled straight out, the hot melt almost worked, and the Celcon block broke before the hot melt/Gorilla pulled out, leaving a cone shaped piece of block around the Fischer.
I think the success of the Gorilla is that it expands and jams into the slots on the Fischer and the pores of the Celcon.
Tried it on the bedroom wall and it worked superbly!
You need to twirl the plug round slowly as you first add the Gorilla to the back section of the plug and also (afterwards) when you add the hot melt to the front 4 mm or so: it isn't a critical bead, and the hot melt and Gorilla happily mingle together at the join.
I found that drilling a 7mm hole, followed by gently easing a dummy plug in and out (on the end of a screw) to check that the plug with glue combo will go in smoothly, worked well.
I deliberately did not over-tighten the screw - i.e. to try and see when/if it would fail - but it certainly held absolutely rock solid at a fairly manly tightening-up - as much torque as I would use anyway in a normal wardrobe/plug/proper brick setting.
I had left it overnight to set, but the Gorilla bottle says it reaches 80% strength in 1-2 hrs so maybe this will be long enough for most jobs - saves having to wait 24 hrs for other adhesives to cure.
The excess (hot melt/Gorilla foam combo) is easy to remove when cooled/foamed (shear off emulsion painted wall with screwdriver, and you may need to trim any excess on plug face with sharp knife) but smears/goes black if you try and remove it before foam has set.
Think it may stain painted emulsion a bit so could be a problem if this is visible. You could stem the spilling-out flow of excess below the hole with a wad of paper towel: messy again, and if you drop the plug on your best carpet you will make a hell of a mess.
It's a proper fiddle but it well and truly saved my bacon and I wanted to share with other DIYers who may be similarly stuck (no pun intended).
Downsides:
Gorilla advise gloves and to avoid breathing (see HSE info and bottle). The hot melt/Gorilla interface is probably helping a little more Gorilla fumes to come off, so best try not to get too close and breathe it in all day (but it's not unpleasant at all when you are doing it.)
It is a fiddly job and can be messy; best to twirl the plug slowly as you approach the hole to avoid drippage. Cover up the area in front to wall with dust sheet and paper towel along the flight path.
You need a fine nozzle end to hot glue gun (mines a Bosch PKP 18E - e.g. Screwfix) so you can direct hot melt precisely. You will inevitably get it on your fingers sometimes (it hurts but doesn't burn like e.g. a lighted match)unless you are very careful or wear gloves.
It would be time consuming and expensive to do 100 odd holes. I suppose it is a poor man's resin fix but hopefully a bit more practicable for small jobs rather than resin tubes and studding (especially when the wardrobe is between you and the wall).
I have also used it to fix some brackets to the same wall, and will use the mix on my kitchen wall (Celcon 5") where the cupboard keeps pulling the plug out.
Seems a long winded process to put a screw in a wall, just using the correct plug is all that's required, if you need adhesive you are using the wrong plug.
Wow this one's been dragging on for years!
When I encounter this problem, I simply demolish the wall, and rebuild using staffordshire blue engineering bricks. You will then find that you get 100% secure fixing with your plugs and screws. Quick, easy, and no faffing about with Pritt Stick!
Thank you, and goodnight.
When I encounter this problem, I simply demolish the wall, and rebuild using staffordshire blue engineering bricks. You will then find that you get 100% secure fixing with your plugs and screws. Quick, easy, and no faffing about with Pritt Stick!
Thank you, and goodnight.
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