Help with Aquapanel and plasterboard please

[happyhero]

Hi I am redoing a bathroom and due to the condition of the walls decided to go for dot and dab. No sooner had I got my head round how you do this I was confused again. (There is no bath just a shower) After loads of reading I decided that in the shower location I would use Aquapanel from floor to ceiling, and I had assumed I could just dot and dab that too, which seemed good as I could easily get it all level for tiling with the plasterboard, but then I found out you cannot fix Aquapanel like this.

My understanding now is, Aquapanel has to be screwed to timber strips up the wall with special screws, but i am struggling to understand how I will level it all. Surely the plasterboard will be very close to the wall with the dot and dab method so wouldn't that mean I need very thin strips of wood behind the Aquapanel which would not leave much to screw in to?

I understand you can use an adhesive behind the Aquapanel if it is used on the floor, so is it not possible if I use it on the wall? It would make like so much easier considering the unevenness of the existing wall after having stripped it of old tiles.

So how do you get Aquapanel and dot and dab plasterboard level with each other?

I don't really want to put tons of adhesive behind the plasterboard just to pack it out so that I can use bigger timber behind the Aquapanel.

Should I abandon the Aquapanel idea, and plasterboard with moisture resistant plasterboard instead and then tank it?

What happens if you try and dot and dab Aquapanel, will it not hold/stick, I thought the adhesive sticks to anything.

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

[Softus]

My understanding now is, Aquapanel has to be screwed to timber strips up the wall with special screws, but i am struggling to understand how I will level it all. Surely the plasterboard will be very close to the wall with the dot and dab method so wouldn't that mean I need very thin strips of wood behind the Aquapanel which would not leave much to screw in to?

Personally, I'd use the Knauf framework (or equivalent). It compensates for variation in wall surface to make the boarding absolutely plumb, flat, true and rigid.

So how do you get Aquapanel and dot and dab plasterboard level with each other?

By using Aquapanel throughout, and no plasterboard.

Should I abandon the Aquapanel idea, and plasterboard with moisture resistant plasterboard instead and then tank it?

I would say no.

What happens if you try and dot and dab Aquapanel, will it not hold/stick, I thought the adhesive sticks to anything.

You invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.

You might want to ask a moderator to combine your two topics.

 

[Richard C]

You can use through fixings rather than battens; see this topic
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=126487

Regarding where the Aquapanel & PB meet; what I do is to extend the Aquapanel slightly beyond the shower enclosure (or whatever) & butt the PB to it so that the last row of tiles will cover the join. If the rest of the wall is to be plastered, I skim before tiling & just blend the skim down to nothing where it meets the Aquapanel; it’ll look a bit rough at the edge but the tiles cover it so it’s not visible.

 

[happyhero]

Its is my neighbour I am helping to do his bathroom and he will help me with mine, but he is relying heavily on my skills. He really seems against the idea of using Aquapanel throughout so would this work at

The problem I have is I need to get the Aqua panel level with the plasterboard so that it appears as one smooth wall to tile, but I will be pushing the plasterboard against the wall using the dot and dab method to get it as close to the original wall as possible within reason. I have not done this before but imagine I will end up with a gap of only 5mm behind the board if that is possible. Therefore any packing behind the Aquapanel would have to be very thin and where I would have to do that is a very rough wall ie it is that dark grey crumbly breeze block(damaged by the old tile removal). I have filled the worst parts a little but getting batten so thin fitted to it and packing to get the Aquapanel level with the plasterboard might be quite a nightmare.

So I had an idea which you can tear apart, I cannot stick Aquapanel up with dot and dab and packing out will be awkward, but what if I stick the Aquapanel up using dot and dab (at this point I am hoping it will hold it up enough temporarily, can you confirm?) which would then allow me to level it with the plasterboard more easily. Then when the adhesive has dried, maybe the next day, I can put the Aquapanel screws in to the panel and into the wall to hold them up properly. This way the glue being dry has acted as my spacing/packing and maybe will give some adhesion and yet the panel is still held up with the correct screw method.

What do you think of that idea, will it work, will it hold?

Any weakness in this method?

Will the plasterboard dot and dab stuff hold the Aquapanel temporarily for a day or two?

 

[Richard C]

what if I stick the Aquapanel up using dot and dab (at this point I am hoping it will hold it up enough temporarily, can you confirm?) which would then allow me to level it with the plasterboard more easily. Then when the adhesive has dried, maybe the next day, I can put the Aquapanel screws in to the panel and into the wall to hold them up properly. This way the glue being dry has acted as my spacing/packing and maybe will give some adhesion and yet the panel is still held up with the correct screw method.

Did you not follow the link I posted to an associated topic? That’s more or less the method I’ve described. Make sure you space the dabs evenly & know roughly where they are & use through fixings; but please follow the link & READ THE OTHER THREAD; I don’t what to repeat it all over again!

 

[happyhero]

Apologies I am a donkey, I come on here asking for help and I didn't even see your link, I think I was concentrating on replying to another post or something, as I have never clicked on it and seen what you said previously. Anyway I have read your inputs from that post now, finally, and yes very interesting, and helpful and there I was thinking i had come up with a bright idea first, oh well.

Anyway many thanks Richard C but I have a few questions now, if you will forgive me and answer them.

1. Will the drywall adhesive hold the aquapanel up ok ( I heard it is incredibly sticky stuff) even though they do not recommend it for it?

2. When would you put the screws in, perhaps next day when it has dried or sooner?

3. I know there are special screws for Aquapanel (not sure why though) but the ones you mentioned at Screwfix have a head that would sit proud of the board, would it not, or am I missing something?

4. If I did not use the Aquapanel proper screws what would I have to be sure of ie what would they have to be made of to be ok with Aquapanel?

5. You say to know roughly where your dabs are is this so you don't strain/break the board by pulling in tight between dabs?

6 Lastly on your previous post on this subject, GJS said there was a good Dot & dab video on the Knauf site but I have looked and cannot find it, any chance of a link?

 

[happyhero]

I would still be interested in answers to the post I made just above as I like to learn and understand but I am rapidly being swayed away from Aquapanel. I have read something on another forum which I am not sure if I am allowed on here to give a link to unless you can tell me, so for now I have copied the first post in to illustrate what I am getting at, hope this is ok:-

Recently it has been asked if Aquapanel can be fixed using the direct bond method. I was not sure of the answer and so I contacted Kanuf technical, who kindly answered the question for me-

The Knauf Aquapanel can only be installed mechanically using a frame
system. This board cannot be direct bonded using the bonding compound
for two reasons:
1) The board itself is cement based and is not compatible with the
bonding compound which is gypsum based. As they are not compatible, the
bonding compound will not adhere the board. If you do try this, you may
find that the board comes off the compound within a few days.
2) The board does allow moisture through it over time. For this reason,
you have to ensure an air gap to the back of the board for the moisture
to disperse. This is done by ensuring that the board is fitted onto a
frame.

If you are using a metal frame, we would recommend using the Knauf
Apertura Lining systems (explained in the attached in detail). If using
timber studs instead, a minimum depth as recommended by the British
Standards is 38mm.
(This is also gives you the option of adding insulation between the
frame should you need to increase the thermal performance of your
wall.)

Just elaborating the point above regarding moisture through the board:
The board itself is not affected by water. This means that it simple
allows the moisture through it without affecting its stability or
performance. This is designed as such so that, should your tiling or
grouting fail and water finds its way to the back of the boards, it will
not cause the board to fail, causing the rest of the tiles to come off
like plasterboard would.
For domestic use, the level of waterproofness and water repellentness
you require can be achieved by the tiles alone. For commercial use, we
would recommend a polythene sheet fixed to the frame prior to the
boards.

For your information as well, we recommend tiling to commence onto the
smooth side, and you should use a cement based flexible tile adhesive.

I don't think I can spare the room for a 38mm air gap for a start.

 

[Richard C]

1. Will the drywall adhesive hold the aquapanel up ok ( I heard it is incredibly sticky stuff) even though they do not recommend it for it?

Yes but put a couple of screw through as soon as it grabs to support the weight.

2. When would you put the screws in, perhaps next day when it has dried or sooner?

As soon as the adhesive is firm enough to take them.

3. I know there are special screws for Aquapanel (not sure why though) but the ones you mentioned at Screwfix have a head that would sit proud of the board, would it not, or am I missing something?

The problem with Aquapanel screws is you cant fit them through the panel, you would have to mark through where each screw is using a small pilot drill remove the panel, drill the wall, fit plugs & then screw the panel to the wall; I have done it this way, it takes longer but you don’t need the adhesive. The through fixings vary, if they sit proud, countersink slightly for the head.

4. If I did not use the Aquapanel proper screws what would I have to be sure of ie what would they have to be made of to be ok with Aquapanel?

See above

5. You say to know roughly where your dabs are is this so you don't strain/break the board by pulling in tight between dabs?

Yes

6 Lastly on your previous post on this subject, GJS said there was a good Dot & dab video on the Knauf site but I have looked and cannot find it, any chance of a link?

Don’t know.

Regards the 38mm air gap behind; that’s the ideal Knauf theory but I don’t see how fixing the panels closer or even direct to the blocks is any different to the situation with normally plastered block work. I’ve used this method on Aquapanel without any problems; using any sort of plasterboard will be the same + you run the risk of it disintegrating before too long; the only other method open to you is to tank.