HIVE again ...

[GAREth777]

Due to the Ideal Manual supplied not being the best (I have rang up their services department and they actually agreed with me there is a misprint in the manual) I have decided to ask the guru’s on here rather than Tom, Dick or Harry on the end of the phone.

I am torn between the Tado Smart Thermostat and Hive.

Both very similar priced but both have positives and negatives.

Tado (which is actually harder to buy as lots of places are sold out that have it priced competitively) is a lot easier to install as it can be a wired install which is what I already have so it would be a simple switch over from existing stat). Seen a friends install and it’s pretty much plug and play, but it would have to be where I have current stats installed (a bit of a negative)

Hive I can obviously relocate my stat but is harder to install due to a receiver needing to be wired.

Here is where the advice is needed as I’m swayed towards Hive.

From what I have worked out from the manual the Hive receiver to the boiler would need to be wired accordingly.

- Neutral to Neutral
- Live to Live
- Earth to Earth Tether

- Heating off and Heating on links on receiver would then need to be wired into boiler into the 2 links Room/Stat depending on which is live.

So where would the Common link on receiver be wired to?

I have attached pictures of my setup.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The existing (OWL?) unit is a switch
The HIVE is a switch.

just swop one for the other, how hard can it be?

 

[GAREth777]

I don’t have an existing switch.

That is a diagram hence it being a picture of a diagram rather than an actual photo.

 

[Taylortwocities]

So, Boiler external connections drawing.

You need to run a cable or cables to the Hive. You will need 4 cores and earth. So one length of 4-core and earth cable. or use two pieces of 2-core and earth.

Live, neutral and earth supply. from boiler to the Hive. Like wiring up a plug (easy so far?)

Then remove the link between L supply and L return
You now need another another 2 cores of cable. One goes in L supply at the boiler and connects to Common on the Hive. One goes in L return at the boiler and connects to Call for Heat on the Hive.

Tha's it.

 

[GAREth777]

Thank you

That’s exactly what I was expecting.

Only issue is what do I do with existing stat wires? There is one going into boiler from mains already and the ones wired into my wall thermostats.

Do I just tape them and remove thermostat?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Remove the wires from the boiler marked "Room Stat/Timer"

That should be where THE room stat is connected. But you said

and the ones wired into my wall thermostats

How many more have you got?
Where do they connect?

 

[GAREth777]

So in my hallway (downstairs) I have a wired thermostat.

Upstairs in my spare room I have a wired thermostat.

New build and 2 different zones.

With the wired thermostat for upstairs being in the actual spare room this is why I am tempted to go for the slightly more awkward Hive as I would like to move it’s location to the landing upstairs (picky I know but preference)

 

[Taylortwocities]

Where do those wired thermostats come together to control the boiler. Do they both terminate inside the boiler, or is there some other wiring centre/zone control wiring somewhere?

How are the rooms heated, radiators, or under floor heating?
Is there a separate pump/manifold for the two zones?

 

[GAREth777]

This is what both the upstairs and downstairs Thermostats look like. Hence the ease of installing a Tado (but unfortunately still in same locations)

And below is an example of whose what and where attached to the valve actuators (looks an absolute mess from here) but I’m guessing whoever installed it then it made perfect sense!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Surely you will need a dual channel hive (or two) otherwise it's a bit pointless, isn't it?

 

[GAREth777]

Yeah I will be getting 2 thermostats for the 2 different zones.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I can see exactlky what is going on there. You have two stats and each controls one of the zone valves. The valve outputs are commonon toigether and call for heat when either of teh valves is open.
I have no idea where the pump(is) is/are. I would have expevted one per zone.
In my opinion. You will need two Hives* or Tados. One for each zone.

Looking at your setup, and (with respect) your knowledge level. Go for 2xTados. One for each zone.
They are battery powered and you can just swop the existing stats for the Tado backplate. It only needs the two wires that are already there.

The Hive backplate needs a neutral and there is not one at the stst positions, although you have a spare wire that could be used for this, but you'd need to do some wiring.


EDIT: *You could go for the HIVE multi-zone but this WILL need some serious re-config of your wiring centre, so you'll need to invite the lovely skilled British Gas organisation in to make a job of it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Exactly.

 

[GAREth777]

Cheers guys

I had a feeling the hive was going to be a lot harder but didn’t realise how much harder.

I know how easy the Tado is to ‘plug and play’ as a friend has a new build with very similar setup and his was as straightforward as it comes.

I was just hoping the hive would be so I could relocate the thermostat.

Oh well there are worse things to worry about.

 

[ericmark]

There are two types of thermostat.
Switched.
Modulated.
Which you select is dependent on boiler and what the thermostat is used for.
Each group can be sub-divided, to modulate the boiler you can either vary the voltage to the eBUS or you can control the return water temperature. The latter uses a by-pass valve and thermostatic radiator valves (TRV) these can have different heads, from pure mechanical to full wifi and with the latter are quite accurate, so every room can have its own independent control with the return water temperature modulating the boiler output, they can also connect to a hub which in turn connects to the eBUS of the boiler, it depends on how much you pay, and how good of a control you need.

The bees knees would not need a by-pass valve or TRV's it has a 5 speed motor and a fan pumping out hot air and can also be used to cool the house in winter, but the price gets a bit on the steep side.

So what you have to do is balance price to performance. So The terrier i-Temp i30 is about the cheapest electronic head, with the evohome being likely the best.

I went half way, I got Energenie which will work with Nest. I think Tado does an electronic TRV but trying to read the instructions it is not clear how Tado works, with EvoHome we have a unit called a thermostat, however it is a lot more than a thermostat, it collects the data from each eTRV and processes it and then tells the boiler when to run, each room can be set to a different temperature.

The Energenie with Nest also takes the info from the eTRV and relays it to boiler, however from what I can see, reading the instructions, every eTRV which Nest follows has to be at the same temperature, which rather defeats the whole idea.

Without having the eTRV talk to the thermostat the boiler has no way to know when it should run or at what output it should run, with some open plan houses the simplest of system will work well, however get a house with doors to every room, and bay windows to catch the sun, and it needs a complex system.

With my mothers house in hind sight I should have fitter EvoHome but I tried to cut corners and after a lot of tweaking it now runs reasonable well, however what it has shown if you want Geofencing then you need fan assisted radiators as the response time on non fan assisted is far too slow.

However I can with PC, Phone or tablet adjust the temperature in my mothers two main rooms, but looking at 2 to 3 hours to change the temperature by 2°C, not because the boiler or radiator is too small, but the thermostats are too clever trying to stop over shoot so as a result the change is slow.