Hot water booster pump

[sotal]

We have a conventional boiler system which is gravity fed.

In our main bathroom the hot and cold taps are separate and the flow from the hot tap is fine.

In the kitchen we have a mixer tap, but it is one that doesn't mix in the body it really is two taps that feed all the way to the end of the spout. Again this one is fine.

We then have a mixer tap in the utility room - this one is one that mixes in the body. The cold water over powers the hot really.

We then have a mixer tap in the downstairs toilet, this again mixes in the body. The flow for the hot seems quite poor at this point. There is good positive head but it is the longest run of pipe to get to here. Again the cold over powers the hot but even selecting hot only it is a bit of a trickle.

We also have a mixer in our en-suite again the flow is poor for hot and it mixes badly.

We have two showers but both of these are electric power showers so no problem with them.

Am I correct in thinking that the best solution would be to install a booster pump?

If so where would it fit?
Are they fully automatic?
Do they make much noise?
Any recommendations?

I've read a few descriptions for them but most said they were suitable for only one appliance (ie shower) - would they be OK to help to supply 3 sinks which are unlikely to ever be used at the same time (yet possible)

Thanks


Edit - just to add...

All three of the taps that I wish to improve have mains water for cold water.

The utility and downstairs bathroom are obviously downstairs, the ensuite is upstairs. The hot water cylinder is in the airing cupboard upstairs and the tank is as high up as possible in the loft.

 

[Madrab]

All three of the taps that I wish to improve have mains water for cold water.

There's your issue

The only way to remedy that is to equalise the pressure. You need to either -

• Change you taps to dual flow - easiest and cheapest
• feed the cold from the cold water cistern in the attic - some re-piping required
• equalise the hot water pressure by converting to mains fed - Major refit of the hot water circuit

A whole house pump would be needed and can make things better but sometimes in these situations it is hit n miss and can sometimes be difficult to supply a consistent head via a pump. Downstairs bathroom may need a change to the pipe run/size to increase the flow.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

2nd for just fitting more appropriate taps.

 

[sotal]

Thanks for the reply.

I fitted the dual flow tap to the kitchen, which made a big improvement in the kitchen. However the kitchen had acceptable flow of hot water already. I might just about get away with a dual flow in the utility room and possibly the downstairs toilet, but the flow to en suite isn't enough for a dual flow - the flow rate is just not good enough. The tap height is the same as the main bathroom. However the main bathroom taps are less than 2m to the side of the tank. The bath also gets good hot water flow.

The en-suite is more like 6 or 7m away and that is where I get the trickle - no real way to reduce the piping.

Would it be worth fitting dual flow taps downstairs and fitting a smaller booster pump in the flow to the en-suite?

 

[sotal]

I've been having a search for bathroom dual flow mixer taps and not finding much except really hideous looking taps. Is there another name for them or another search term to use?

The basin is a single hole.


The en-suite would be very difficult to pipe non mains water to and would need to be in addition to the mains as we need the mains water for the power shower. I would also fear that, the cold would just be pathetic too!

Both the utility and the downstairs toilet would be very difficult too as it would need a new pipe right across the house.

 

[Classic40]

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Tap...sd2691/Deva+Milan+Mono+Basin+Mixer+Tap/p62783

An easy option would be to add a Grundfos UPA 15 90 (http://www.anchorpumps.com/grundfos-upa15-90n-domestic-circulator-240v), never going to match mains pressure but adds between 0.5 to 0.75 bar.

 

[Madrab]

Dual flow is the only name I know them by unfortunately.

Power showers are tank fed BTW, not mains, electric showers are mains fed but that's by the by.

I think that due to the mix of mains and gravity designs you have at the moment it could be difficult to correct without going down the road of re-designing. The plumber that did the original plumbing should have designed the supply properly when installing.

As suggested a whole house pump may work but again the balancing is the difficult part. Cold mains pressure needs to be know and then installing a pump that closely matches that pressure if pumping is your only option.

 

[sotal]

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Taps+&+Showers/d240/Bathroom+Taps+&+Mixers/sd2691/Deva+Milan+Mono+Basin+Mixer+Tap/p62783

An easy option would be to add a Grundfos UPA 15 90 (http://www.anchorpumps.com/grundfos-upa15-90n-domestic-circulator-240v), never going to match mains pressure but adds between 0.5 to 0.75 bar.

Isn't that tap a mono mixer like I already have?


Yes I do mean Electric Shower for both the showers.

Will a PEV help at all rather than a pump?

 

[Classic40]

PEV might work, however a pump would help all taps.

 

[Madrab]

Given the very low pressure you have on the hot side a Pressure Equalising Valve will could cause more restrictions.

Measure the cold pressure, source a pump that'll supply as close to that as possible. Again this may work but may not as pumps can be unpredictable when it comes to balancing

 

[sotal]

I haven't got anything to measure the pressure the only thing I can really measure is the flow rate - is that any use?

A very quick test with a jug and a timer gives me the following:

En-Suite Hot - 3L per minute
En-Suite Cold - 12L per minute
Utility Hot - 4.5L per minute
Utility Cold - 12L per minute
Toilet Hot - 4L per minute
Toilet Cold - 12L per minute

If I have traced the pipes correctly they all come off the same feed.

A mains cold and a hot pipe feed the en-suite, these then continue along and down into the utility room and then across to the downstairs toilet.

To switch to cold (non mains) I would have to run a pipe from the main bathroom along the landing, right through our bedroom and into the en-suite. It would require ripping up the floors of 4 rooms. I also fear that if I did that rather than having poor hot and good cold I would just end up with poor cold and poor hot?! I guess a PEV would restrict this too?

Can you get a combined pump and PEV or are they worth using together, so you can increase the pressure of the Hot and then equalize it with the cold? If I did that it would have to be after the en-suite shower but before the en-suite sink which would be problematic!