ICE told to get the eff out

[motorbiking]

That isn't true. The law and rulings specifically say not to fire at escaping vehicles. Your argument is essentially that, because the agent had wounded Renee, he had to finish the job to protect others. You will not find any guidance or ruling which agrees with that.

This is an argument you are making not me.

I have stated clearly, he is in danger and opens fire, the decision to fire was one single process. He let off 3 or 4 rounds in about a second.

The case law shows - 2 of which have been discussed here, number of shots is broadly irrelevant if they were fired in one go. Decision to fire must be based on a threat. The assessment must be based on facts at hand, no hind sight and broad allowances for dynamic situations.

 

[Highway Man]

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

View attachment 405644

Doesn't matter. The ice agent would not have known this in the moment

 

[MNW67]

This is an argument you are making not me.

No, it was you.

The danger was over when the vehicle was halted. A person who has been shot and is "in charge" of a moving vehicle poses a danger to everyone, that is obvious.

 

[Highway Man]

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

View attachment 405644

Can you accept the fact that analysing something with scrutiny after the event is totally different to what happens during the event?

 

[motorbiking]

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

View attachment 405644

Did the autopsy find the round?
Did the autopsy know that her head was facing the shooter or turned away. If as you say she had just taken one to the arm and chest, you don’t think her head would have moved.

You are being unrealistic in your expectations of the autopsy, not to mention her legal team have only released the bits they want.

 

[motorbiking]

No, it was you.

This is what you said

Your argument is essentially that, because the agent had wounded Renee, he had to finish the job to protect others.

He fired 3 or 4 shots in about 1 seconds. Killing her.

 

[MNW67]

Can you accept the fact that analysing something with scrutiny after the event is totally different to what happens during the event?

Of course I can. I am willing to do both.

 

[motorbiking]

It clears up one thing.

Headshot was fatal, no point in doing CPR or first aid.

 

[Highway Man]

Of course I can. I am willing to do both.

Then on that basis you should be able to see that a car on icy roads accelerating towards the agent and making contact with him was not being driven in a controlled manner and he would have been fearful for his life or serious injury.

 

[MNW67]

Then on that basis you should be able to see that a car on icy roads accelerating towards the agent and making contact with him was not being driven in a controlled manner and he would have been fearful for his life or injury.

I have already said, many times, that might be true. And that, as a result, the first shot might be justified.

 

[Highway Man]

I have already said, many times, that might be true. And that, as a result, the first shot might be justified.

So your only complaint is the further shots?

 

[motorbiking]

Fired in about 1 second or less. This is going nowhere

 

[Highway Man]

The timing is all-important here. it went..Bang, Bang. Bang. Bang. All above the law and well initiated and executed.
Had it gone. Bang, ....Pause ..bang....longer pause.. Bang.. car now halfway up the street Bang. Then you would have a case.

 

[MNW67]

The timing is all-important here. it went..Bang, Bang. Bang. Bang. All above the law and well initiated and executed.
Had it gone. Bang, ....Pause ..bang....longer pause.. Bang.. car now halfway up the street Bang. Then you would have a case.

That is the point. It didn't go bang, bang, bang. Law enforcement don't go bang, bang, bang. That would be a fire fight in a war. There was a delay between shots one and two whilst the agent assessed the situation. Then he made a deliberate decision to kill Renee with a controlled pair (the second and third shots). When you combine the actual timings with all the research and the training procedure, it is clear that he acted as I have described throughout this thread.

 

[motorbiking]

That is the point. It didn't go bang, bang, bang. Law enforcement don't go bang, bang, bang. That would be a fire fight in a war. There was a delay between shots one and two whilst the agent assessed the situation. Then he made a deliberate decision to kill Renee with a controlled pair (the second and third shots). When you combine the actual timings with all the research and the training procedure, it is clear that he acted as I have described throughout this thread.

It really isn’t and you keep misrepresenting the research.

You can’t prove shot 1 was not the head shot, you can’t prove there was any opportunity for reassessment and you persist in Ignoring case law that prevents the kind of scrutiny you want to apply.