Large Oil Boiler - Condensing?

[tom107]

Hi, I require a new oil boiler, previous boiler never worked. Its a huge 200kw red diesel boiler downgraded I think to 75kw.

I have 2 quotes so far:
180kw ideal falcon gts
2 x 90kw Hoval Uno - 3

Is condensing just a waste? Even hoval didn't recommend it suggesting their models takes special low sulphur fuel popular in EU but not UK.

Currently heating does not do attic however I would like boilers to be able to cope in future. For this reason I think it may be better to get 1 boiler now and have plumbing for another at a later date? How much more efficient would heating be with 2 boilers?

I did a rough heat loss on stelrad stars, with current heat load it comes to around 57 - 63kw with rooms at either 19c or 21c and -3c outside temperature

With attic and basement rooms it jumps to around 89kw 19c & 99kw 21c .

Hot water its not linked to boiler but would like boiler to cope for 7 bathrooms would that be another 14kw?

Which boiler would you recommend?

Thanks

 

[Norcon]

If it was downgraded and running the system at 75 kw's then why are you getting quotes for 180kw?
Must be a mansion you are trying to heat.
You need commercial weather compensation on a beast that size!

A proper heat loss survey would be a good idea.

 

[dcawkwell]

How many radiators do you have?

Multiply by 1.5 should give approx kilowatts you need.

2 x 44kW warmflows give 88kw that should be plenty.

Or 3 if you wanted 132kW.

 

[tom107]

If it was downgraded and running the system at 75 kw's then why are you getting quotes for 180kw?
Must be a mansion you are trying to heat.
You need commercial weather compensation on a beast that size!

A proper heat loss survey would be a good idea.

This was done by previous owner, but I know some Large rooms were not heated.

I have no experience of how well the heating worked.

All the companies seem to do is look at boiler plate and spec a slightly smaller boiler.


Yes I have read up on weather compensating, Hoval comes with it as standard. They suggested savings would be 3%

 

[tom107]

How many radiators do you have?

Multiply by 1.5 should give approx kilowatts you need.

2 x 44kW warmflows give 88kw that should be plenty.

Or 3 if you wanted 132kW.

I have 47 radiators

 

[Norcon]

A big 70kw Grant condensor might be up to it.

The grant will likely be half the price of the hoval. I'd say the Toptronic is just a rebadged Honeywell smile controller.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

How many radiators do you have?

Multiply by 1.5 should give approx kilowatts you need.

2 x 44kW warmflows give 88kw that should be plenty.

Or 3 if you wanted 132kW.

I have 47 radiators

You own a gaffe in London with 47 radiators & you're not employing the services of a HVAC Consultant to design the main boiler plant replacement??
I love the red derv comment, HMRC would love to know that.......

 

[tom107]

How many radiators do you have?

Multiply by 1.5 should give approx kilowatts you need.

2 x 44kW warmflows give 88kw that should be plenty.

Or 3 if you wanted 132kW.

I have 47 radiators

You own a gaffe in London with 47 radiators & you're not employing the services of a HVAC Consultant to design the main boiler plant replacement??
I love the red derv comment, HMRC would love to know that.......

The house is Midlands not London

I have got quotes from heating engineers!

Nothing wrong with red diesel!

 

[dcawkwell]

How many radiators do you have?

Multiply by 1.5 should give approx kilowatts you need.

2 x 44kW warmflows give 88kw that should be plenty.

Or 3 if you wanted 132kW.

I have 47 radiators

Easy 2 44kW Warmflows will do it and give redundancy should one fail
for any reason as well as being more economical in warmer weather.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

How many radiators do you have?

Multiply by 1.5 should give approx kilowatts you need.

2 x 44kW warmflows give 88kw that should be plenty.

Or 3 if you wanted 132kW.

I have 47 radiators

You own a gaffe in London with 47 radiators & you're not employing the services of a HVAC Consultant to design the main boiler plant replacement??
I love the red derv comment, HMRC would love to know that.......

The house is Midlands not London

I have got quotes from heating engineers!

Nothing wrong with red diesel!

Heating Engineers?? Most of whom at best will be combi fitters or washer changers. For a job of that size you want some professional input, save you money in the long run.......

Do you mean gas oil not red diesel or do you live on a Farm??

 

[kidgreen61]

Do you mean gas oil not red diesel or do you live on a Farm??

You seem to be getting your fuels mixed up.

Red diesel can be used as heating oil, it is sometimes referred to as 35 second fuel.

More often, kerosene is used, when it is referred to as 28 sec.

DERV (from Diesel Engined Road Vehicle) is the stuff you put in your car etc, and is punitively taxed.

Gas oil is just a different name for red diesel.

 

[tom107]

Heating Engineers?? Most of whom at best will be combi fitters or washer changers. For a job of that size you want some professional input, save you money in the long run.......

Do you mean gas oil not red diesel or do you live on a Farm??

Actually you may be surprised. I have contacted loads of companies. All do industrial premises, schools, town halls, offices etc. Half don't even arrive or get back for quotes.

Quotes so far range from £11.5k - £28k ! Highest was so vaque wouldn't even tell me boiler model!

Yes its gas oil 35 sec.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

Do you mean gas oil not red diesel or do you live on a Farm??

You seem to be getting your fuels mixed up.

Red diesel can be used as heating oil, it is sometimes referred to as 35 second fuel.

More often, kerosene is used, when it is referred to as 28 sec.

DERV (from Diesel Engined Road Vehicle) is the stuff you put in your car etc, and is punitively taxed.

Gas oil is just a different name for red diesel.

Far from it mate, it's you that doesn't know your fuel, red derv can only legally be used on agricultural vehicles. Read this link & apology excepted;
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/changes-red-diesel.htm

I know the similarities in the fuels, I've been installing oil boilers, stoves & cookers for over 40 years.

 

[Norcon]

That link is laughable.lol
Farmers have always used red diesel in their equipment to grit and clear roads in rural areas. Nothing new.
Last big snow it was a lot more than just rural areas though.
The day when hrmc thinks they can impose a levy and force farmers to use taxed fuel then the roads can stay blocked. And thats basically what they were told in no uncertain terms.

What happened was the government seen a chance to collect some more revenue but the farmers union put a stop to it.


The link says nothing about red diesel being illegal in a household boiler.
Unless some boilers double as road vehicles. lol
Round my way you can buy good quality laundered diesel for near half price for your vehicle.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

Farmers commonly have Kero oil boiler burners set up/altered to burn gas oil/red derv. As the old saying goes; Never seen a Farmer on a bike!!
Another point that the hard of thinking may not know, gas oil/red derv can't be used on an appliance with a balanced flue or low level flue.
HTH