new gas and water supply

[Jackthebiscuit]

I'm converting a house into two flats and my business partner has nominated the plumbing/gas contractor.

He has advised me that it is no longer 'normal' for the mains stop cock for the water to be placed under the sink, and wants to put it near the entrance door to the flat, which means I'll have to install some ugly boxing and access panel. He also said that a gas isolation valve has to be installed where the gas pipe enters the flat so the box could serve access to both gas and water isolation valves.

I think at least the water valve is a ruse, as it is easier for him to put the valve where he has suggested rather than under the sink.

We also need a new gas meter and I've asked him what paperwork the gas board will need prior to connection and asked for his qualifications. He joked '40 years experience' and said that the gas board will just carry out their own tests and that they require no test certs or anything. I find this hard to believe given the criteria other services require.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Agile]

If you dont want the water connections where the plumber is advising you to put them then get another plumber!

The customer always thinks that he is right ( but often he is wrong! ).

If anyone is doing any gas pipework then he MUST be Gas Registered and have an identity card to show you or give you his registration number which you can check on the web and see a photo of him to ensure he is not an imposter.

You can ask him ( beforehand ) for a Gas Safety Certificate in respect of any gas work that he is doing. We charge a bit extra for anyone who asks for that! It serves no real purpose when a known registered person is doing the work but is often a good idea when a builder is bringing unqualified workers but they always know a dodgy gas person who is prepared to ( illegally ) sign off work done by illegal workers.

After a gas meter has been moved then YOU need to get a qualified person to reconnect the gas from the meter into the property.

Tony

 

[Nige F]

I joke here...and I`ve got 40 years experience (This year if you include training) BUT I don`t joke about Gas safety - I stopped doing gas as soon as Corgi came in - didn`t need it. Sounds like your partner has found a real "joker". It`s never been "normal" for the stopcock to be under a sink . There are regs, that govern it`s siting - like there are regs to most building work

 

[Bon]

As the boys above say, the gas work must be done by a Gas Safe registered chap. If he claims he's CORGI registered then that's now obsolete so tell him to go and update his business!

With regards to the water stop-cock, where does the supply enter the property as this is where the stop-cock should be installed allowing the occupant to "kill" the whole property should that be their desire!

 

[lifesagasman]

op if the gas meter is already in place with appliances connected it is assumed that the responsible person maintains them in a safe condition. after a meter change, the meter op will do a very basic safety check on the installation, which for your appliances means a visual check only.
if no appliances are connected the meter worker simply leaves the meter capped and the rest is down to you
one meter for 2 flats needs addressing properly by your contractor.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

If you dont want the water connections where the plumber is advising you to put them then get another plumber!

The customer always thinks that he is right ( but often he is wrong! ).

If anyone is doing any gas pipework then he MUST be Gas Registered and have an identity card to show you or give you his registration number which you can check on the web and see a photo of him to ensure he is not an imposter.

You can ask him ( beforehand ) for a Gas Safety Certificate in respect of any gas work that he is doing. We charge a bit extra for anyone who asks for that! It serves no real purpose when a known registered person is doing the work but is often a good idea when a builder is bringing unqualified workers but they always know a dodgy gas person who is prepared to ( illegally ) sign off work done by illegal workers.

After a gas meter has been moved then YOU need to get a qualified person to reconnect the gas from the meter into the property.

Tony

Tony,

I know the customer can be wrong, but this guy has made some bizarre suggestions which is what prompted me to ask about his qualifications,, and get the opinions of you guys. I'm now certain he has none.

The ground floor to the property is hardly going to change,, the house was refurbished in 1993, but always in mind that one day it would be split into flats. At the top of the stairs will be the front door to the 1st floor flat and the nearest room to the entrance is the kitchen,, it means an 'extra' 12 ft of pipe to put the stop-cock under the sink but he tells me it must go by the front door and be boxed in. Apart from anything else it will look rude. Methinks he has said this becaue it is the easiest place for him to put it...!!!

He was 'nominated' because he did the original work in '93 and my partner thought it would pay to have the same guy back again seeing he was still local.

The gas meter isn't being moved as such. The existing meter will remain but only serve the ground floor flat,,, a new meter will serve the newly formed 1st floor flat.

What is this about having to have a gas isolation valve just inside the front door of the new flat?

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

I joke here...and I`ve got 40 years experience (This year if you include training) BUT I don`t joke about Gas safety - I stopped doing gas as soon as Corgi came in - didn`t need it. Sounds like your partner has found a real "joker". It`s never been "normal" for the stopcock to be under a sink . There are regs, that govern it`s siting - like there are regs to most building work

Nige F,

His joke rolled off the tongue too easily so my hunch was that he has been asked before and this was his bulk standard answer.

As mentioned, he did the original work in '93 and my question about his qualifications was prompted by his sometimes daft suggestions.

While I'm just getting back into refurbishment/conversion work now,, I did many during the '80's and I can't recall any dwelling where the main stop cock wasn't under the kitchen sink.

Is there a rule/reg that says it must be so many feet within the premises? The nearest room to the front door is the kitchen so we are only talking about an 'extra' 12ft of pipe and it will be under the sink,, where I think it should go! If there is a rule/reg that says it can't then I will obviously abide by the rules.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

As the boys above say, the gas work must be done by a Gas Safe registered chap. If he claims he's CORGI registered then that's now obsolete so tell him to go and update his business!

With regards to the water stop-cock, where does the supply enter the property as this is where the stop-cock should be installed allowing the occupant to "kill" the whole property should that be their desire!

Bon,

The existing supply enters the property at the front via a meter sited on the payment. The stopcock for the house as it stands is under the existing kitchen sink at the rear of the property,,and it will stay there. We will take a separate supply from a newly installed meter in the payment to the 1st floor of the new flat. As the owner always intended to divide the house into flat there is already a separate boiler and heating system, bathroom etc on the 1st floor so we just need to isolate the feed from the ground floor to the 1st floor,,, and hook up the new main.

 

[lifesagasman]

.
quote
The gas meter isn't being moved as such. The existing meter will remain but only serve the ground floor flat,,, a new meter will serve the newly formed 1st floor flat.

What is this about having to have a gas isolation valve just inside the front door of the new flat?

Thanks for your comments.[/quote]

the answer to that depends a lot upon how you propose to supply gas to the new flat. will it have a seperate supply to the flat, which only transco can do, or are you going to install a secondary meter ( which essentially provides gas via the first meter)? if the new flat will have its own meter inside it, it automatically gets installed with its own control valve (by transco) if transco are involved it will cost an arm and a leg

 

[Agile]

If you were having a heart transplant would you prefer a student with impecable qualifications just out of medical school or someone who had done the job every day for the last 40 years?

Your plumber certainly knows what he should do! Its his boss who doesn't !

However, as far as any gas work is concerned it must be done by someone who is gas registered. Not because your guy cannot do it properly, but just because the law says that.

Only let him do gas pipework if he can give you his checkable registration number.

Tony

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

op if the gas meter is already in place with appliances connected it is assumed that the responsible person maintains them in a safe condition. after a meter change, the meter op will do a very basic safety check on the installation, which for your appliances means a visual check only.
if no appliances are connected the meter worker simply leaves the meter capped and the rest is down to you
one meter for 2 flats needs addressing properly by your contractor.

lifesagasman,

Thanks for this.

One of his daft suggestions was to leave the water main alone,, and get the occupiers of the new flats to 'split' the bill..!! This was not an option at all.

There are appliances connected already to the supply,, but as we are creating a new kitchen on the 1st floor there is a new gas hob,, and the existing boiler will need to be disconnected from the old supply and hooked up to the new supply on its separate meter.

 

[lifesagasman]

There are appliances connected already to the supply,, but as we are creating a new kitchen on the 1st floor there is a new gas hob,, and the existing boiler will need to be disconnected from the old supply and hooked up to the new supply on its separate meter.[/quote]

you've now provided an answer to an earlier question.

with no existing supply to the new flat (ie no meter in place) the sequence will be: transco fit a new service pipe to the flat, then your chosen supplier fits a meter and caps it off. then you arrange for the appliances to be commissioned.

have deep pockets for transco (national grid)

i was wondering if you have already got sorted out a new supply with transco as the admin can take months if you're unlucky

 

[tamz]

Putting the stopcock at the front door will probably not be any easier for him as he has to run the pipe to the sink anyway. Depends on the layout of the building right enough. Stopcocks can be fitted anywhere but if you want it under the sink tell him to put it there.

As for his qualifications you shouldn't assume anything one way or the other. Ask him to see his card. If he is registered he will have an id card with his reg number that can be easily checked. Many people still say corgi in relation to gas. That's what they have called themselves for 40 years.

If you changed your name to Billy you would still answer to Jackthebiscuit after a year