New windows/ cavity closers

[ThaBoom]

Hi
I'm new to this forum but regularly read and search for advice from people.

I'm hoping someone can help with something, if Woody is online I know he has great advice usually.

I had some +25yr old windows replaced in summer of this year- but twice!

In January 2022 I selected an independent window fitter to install brand new upvc windows. They measured only from the outside brick to brick and when came to fitting, realising we had cavity closers, they removed them and installed windows/ frame. None of the reveals with 4" cavity were filled. They fitted to the outer leaf and windows just didn't look right.

We were never happy and I wrote them off and in August got a reputable firm to re- install. They positioned the windows back and though I hoped cavity closers would be installed, the fitter used timber battens, dpc was added and even some insulation around them.
Window quality is of high standard and you can tell these are well constructed. However in our bedroom- which faces front of house , we get a air leak coming from somewhere. Can feel a slight draught despite everything shutting properly. I'm of the view the cavity closer we had before helped to bypass a void in the wall cavity?
Or we have lost some of the cavity insulation when windows were taken out.

The lintel above window might need insulation as I need to check this. But I know firm did insulate sides.

Appreciate any information or advice to what I can do to stop this draught.

 

[pcaouolte]

@^woody^ you have a fan!

 

[Notch7]

What you mean by cavity closers?

did you have specialist closers that the windows fitted to?

by the sounds of it the original windows were set back to the depth of the external brick skin - in which I would’ve thought you would have stone cills or creasing tiles.

 

[ThaBoom]

The property is 1990s built so before changing some windows, they had cavity closers - the bedroom windows that were updated this year is where the first fitters removed the cavity closers.

Do cavity closers keep draughts out or at least help with any gaps in window and frame? It's just that the draught we feel wasn't there before in the old window

 

[ThaBoom]

What you mean by cavity closers?

did you have specialist closers that the windows fitted to?

by the sounds of it the original windows were set back to the depth of the external brick skin - in which I would’ve thought you would have stone cills or creasing tiles.

Sorry, I did reply but just saw how to put "quote" in.

Basically there were cavity closers already in and previous windows were installed with these.

New ones are not but installation was still done properly, with timber used to close cavity. Trims were put etc but we just don't see how air is being felt if everything was sealed.

 

[Notch7]

Sorry, I did reply but just saw how to put "quote" in.

Basically there were cavity closers already in and previous windows were installed with these.

New ones are not but installation was still done properly, with timber used to close cavity. Trims were put etc but we just don't see how air is being felt if everything was sealed.

So are new windows fitted in line with the external brick skin? Ie from outside set back by the thickness of the brickwork.

Without some images it’s rather difficult to visualise what the situation is.

In terms of draughts - are you sure it’s coming from between frame and brickwork?

it could be coming through between frame and sash or through trickle vents

 

[ThaBoom]

So are new windows fitted in line with the external brick skin? Ie from outside set back by the thickness of the brickwork.

Without some images it’s rather difficult to visualise what the situation is.

In terms of draughts - are you sure it’s coming from between frame and brickwork?

it could be coming through between frame and sash or through trickle vents

I'll post some pics tomorrow and hopefully will show details.

To my knowledge windows are fitted to external brick skin. Draught/ air isn't from trickle vents- have not felt any air from these when put back of hand on them. I do have foam to put in there if situation changes but I'm certain it's not the vents.

 

[ThaBoom]

Images attached. Outside bedroom window. Inside 'red' marks indicate where its cold and feel draught, especially in corner. Is this what we likely feel when in room especially when on bed. I've spent a fair amount getting 3 windows done but this bedroom one is one we feel has more of draught. So is it because how it's now set without cavity closers and on outer leaf?
Should I get it replaced with cavity closer fitted?

 

[ThaBoom]

Just to highlight that the red line here shows where the window was when first fitter installed they had come further out and 2nd company took window back by couple of inches.

 

[ronniecabers]

i would have expected the windows to be fitted in line with the end of the bricks/cavity , ideally situated just in the cavity , touching the back edge of the bricks ( not always possible I accept that ). On your second post with pics , how thick is that sealant on the outside? ( between window and brickwork)
As goes the draft , unusual to be drafty in the centre of a window , with the radiator there , it could well be Thermal convection you are feeling rather than a draft.
I do note on your second pic that the corner of the opening sash looks like it has something wedges in it?
If you have acces to a lighter or feather even , see how much they move where you think you have drafts

 

[ThaBoom]

i would have expected the windows to be fitted in line with the end of the bricks/cavity , ideally situated just in the cavity , touching the back edge of the bricks ( not always possible I accept that ). On your second post with pics , how thick is that sealant on the outside? ( between window and brickwork)
As goes the draft , unusual to be drafty in the centre of a window , with the radiator there , it could well be Thermal convection you are feeling rather than a draft.
I do note on your second pic that the corner of the opening sash looks like it has something wedges in it?
If you have acces to a lighter or feather even , see how much they move where you think you have drafts

Thanks ronniecabers

I think the original window was probably in the position you mention, but been moved twice now- perhaps it was in line with end of cavity?

Sealant on outside is fairly thick and there's no gaps around window frame.

As for the corner then that is a cold spot, always feel air there and on any slight wind a lighter, feather will flicker.

Guess option is to remove trims and see if there's anything that I can add to any missing insulation?

Last resort would be to re fit window but get cavity closer installed and hopefully window goes further back to cavity opening and tighter fit?

 

[ronniecabers]

A quadrant trim may have been better down that edge rather than a thick sealant ( but sealed as well ) . I'm not a fan of thick sealant lines at all think it looks awful
Is the window closing properly though, as your picture shows something at the bottom of the window sash ...almost looks like foam draft excluder?
Are the trickle vents closed when you feel a draft?
Sealant looks good in that corner

 

[ThaBoom]

A quadrant trim may have been better down that edge rather than a thick sealant ( but sealed as well ) . I'm not a fan of thick sealant lines at all think it looks awful
Is the window closing properly though, as your picture shows something at the bottom of the window sash ...almost looks like foam draft excluder?
Are the trickle vents closed when you feel a draft?
Sealant looks good in that corner

Windows close properly and these are of high quality, can tell they're much better than the original and the lower quality used by first fitter.

I can get a quadrant fitted externally but not sure it'll solve the issue- still feel air is coming from under window/ left corner soon as temp drops or a slight breeze outside.
On the sash I put a small piece of draft strip as felt some air was passing through that part. I don't think it's the gasket or window seal but might just be due to that cold spot getting the better.

Trickle vents are closed. Not blocked up, they close over a plastic cover and dt thk these are reason for draught?? The window company did leave me some foam that is cut to place into trickle vent if required to block due to draught.