Potterton Promax E125

Joined
19 Oct 2008
Messages
112
Reaction score
2
Country
United Kingdom
A 2 year old (just out of warranty!) boiler has been throwing E125 since the day (literally) my Mother moved into her newly-built house. The fault has been raised with her Home builder who have called in Potterton engineers three times now as well as numerous visits by their own snaggers.

Over this time the whole System has been checked, drained, and a new controller PCB and CH flow NTC fitted. But it still throws E125 every couple of weeks or so. Reset brings it back. Now they want money for further callouts and that's plain ridiculous given that they've never been able to diagnose the problem which has been known about since day one.

So I'm studying the issue myself. I started with a description of E125: "Circulation Fault (Primary Circuit)". The details I find in the service manual are:

E125 is displayed in either of two situations:-
i) If within 15 seconds of the burner lighting the boiler
temperature has not changed by 1°.
ii) If within 10 minutes of the burner lighting the boiler
temperature twice exceeds the selected temperature by 30°.
In these instances poor primary circulation is indicated.​

This suggests the controller is going on the flow NTC temperature reading and the internal timing alone. So not other sensor would seem to be involved. If I understand it correctly then, case "i) failure to rise by 1° in 15 seconds" would reflect a total stoppage of flow, e.g. failed pump or possibly misplaced divertor. But I would think this would not be something that would show up as intermittent.

If it's "ii) excessive temperature" (damn them for not giving us a unique E code!) then it's some circumstance where the flow has diminished to an unacceptable. But given the pump and other components check out OK, what's left that could cause this?

Just to add... I searched these forums and found many similar online discussions about E125 but not one ended with "it turned out to be X" or "doing Y fixed it"
 
Last edited:
Sponsored Links
Hi Andrew, Potterton have simply stated that their boiler is working to specification. Diagnosis of the cause of the conditions that give rise to the error appear to be beyond the scope of their investigations. I have a certain amount of sympathy with this attitude although the swapping out of components to arrive at their conclusion strikes me as being a bit crude. I would be interested to know if there was any kind of datalogging that would cast light on the circumstances leading up to the error condition. If so, they haven't referred to it.
 
Hi Andrew, Potterton have simply stated that their boiler is working to specification. Diagnosis of the cause of the conditions that give rise to the error appear to be beyond the scope of their investigations. I have a certain amount of sympathy with this attitude although the swapping out of components to arrive at their conclusion strikes me as being a bit crude. I would be interested to know if there was any kind of datalogging that would cast light on the circumstances leading up to the error condition. If so, they haven't referred to it.

By scope they have basically said it is not a boiler issue and therefore a system issue of which they have no reason to continue. Potterton didn't fit the system did they! New build, from day 1 you say, what does that say to you? Yes boilers can be faulty out of the box but this is different. The system requires attention and does not fall into their remit.
 
Sponsored Links
I agree Gas2Air, provided that their assurance that the relevant sensors, pump and diverter valve within the boiler are all functioning correctly then, in all probability, the error code reflects a problem somewhere else in the system. The developer however refuses to take responsibility beyond their initial response which was to send the plumbing contractor back in to drain and check the system. They signed it off as being correctly installed so we're left without a solution.

With the nature of the fault being intermittent and the boiler being readily amenable to a reset, after every one of the nine visits so far, we've been told it should be "fine now" yet it keeps on tripping. I don't think anyone should be put in the position of continually paying out for further site work until a proper diagnosis and remedy have been arrived at.

In the meantime my natural engineering tendencies lead me want to understand what might be going wrong so I can have an intelligent conversation with the next engineer that visits. You know, to make sure we get our money's worth from the event.

As far as the rest of the system goes, there doesn't seem to be much left in the way of sophisticated parts that might be to blame. TRV's and radiators connected by pipework. The Boiler has an internal bypass so shouldn't be upset by all TRV's closing... but I'd love to know if the overheat took place during the 3min pump overun period.
 
I talked to Baxi Technical Admin. who provided me with the following summary:
During the visits our engineer recorded

18/12/15 Air is in the system again. Changed pcb as precaution for e125 poor circulation error code.

20/3/15 Air in system on diagnostics.

19/2/15 Bled air from system and changed thermistor.
What sort of checks can be done to find out how air is entering the primary circulation loop?
 
Dear vexation, my intention is to guide you in the right direction, nothing more.

Ideally, you need a full flow primary loop and piped primary bypass integrated into the boiler's pump overrun facility. I would forget the integral bypass at this time as its placement seems unable to cope with dissipating the excess heat when the system is turned off during high burner firing and causing the E125 signal as it was designed to do.

You need *Flowing Water* through the boiler "always" for the various flow and temp sensors to be satisfied.

Unless this fault is corrected you will continually have air being created by the pump cavitating as it tries in vain to push hot water against a vitual 'brick wall'

Obviously (as your readout data shows) this will only happen at particular moments when water flow through the system is at it lowest caused by closing valves fitted into the flow circuit.

Theoretically the built in bypass if correctly adjusted should cope but with a closed off primary loop this might be asking too much - yet it still might just be possible but only with a known pump flow rate. If an alternative ABP valve was fitted, the built in BPV would need to be made inoperative.

It would be up to the system installer to adjust the pump flow dependant pressure sensing bypass rate when flow is at its minimal allowed rate.

It would be difficult for me to continue discussing this issue further without having a diagram or detailed knowledge of the actual system layout.

hope this throws some light on the problem

regards
 
Hi MrTherm, thanks for your thoughts on this.

Dear vexation, my intention is to guide you in the right direction, nothing more.

Ideally, you need a full flow primary loop and piped primary bypass integrated into the boiler's pump overrun facility. I would forget the integral bypass at this time as its placement seems unable to cope with dissipating the excess heat when the system is turned off during high burner firing and causing the E125 signal as it was designed to do.

It's not known for sure that this is what's happening, just my hunch. However, it may be that wider experience has found this to be an issue - is this the case?
 
...Unless this fault is corrected you will continually have air being created by the pump cavitating as it tries in vain to push hot water against a vitual 'brick wall'...
Is this really the case? You can't squeeze much atmospheric gas out of water. Anyway, I've turned up on many occasions when the boiler has tripped with E125 and found nothing but water at the all the radiator bleed valves. I'm not sure how the Baxi eng. has been finding air.
 
Maybe try a search on this site for problems that appear as reversed flow or similar (the effect of pumping against a closed off pipe leg with no through way or outlet).

It can be too deep a subject to grasp at first hand.

Zone valves are not snap acting, there is a period of time that lapses during opening or closing, a period of cavitating acceleration in some cases - where the outlet to the zone is still open with the pump still running yet the primary circulation is being fully throttled while at full flow.

It is at this very moment any bypass system must 'kick in' and be open or be just opening and must be fully in effect when zones have closed - a *continuing* of the primary circuit flow through a bypass.

Your data readout equates to no flow at these moments - no effective arrangement to continue the flow that your boiler is screaming out for.

The E125 condition does a great job in a simple way, it detects a *no difference* (to the flow temp) situation, eg:-

as per your (i) the primary has not cooled = poor flow
as per your (ii) the primary has fast heated = poor flow
..........................
For crying out loud, stop the contraryness, get the pump overrun and by pass set up and working!

I will cease to comment for a while.
 
I have just started experiencing the E125 problem on my Potterton Promax Ultra. This has only just started after 2 years without a problem. The error code came up twice yesterday, & no problem so far today.
I have just tried the De-Aeration Function, although this is not suggested in the manual as a solution, & I don't know if it has made any difference. The only work done on the system was the replacement of a TVR earlier in the summer.
Any comments?
 
yes I have a comment, it is against site rules to hi-jack a 3 year old post, and how do you expect to get the correct advice by doing so ? start your own post with the problem that you have please
 
Sorry about that. Only just joined so obviously do not know all the rules yet!
 
Sorry about that. Only just joined so obviously do not know all the rules yet!
Sorry just read that back and seemed really harsh, I apologise, when you jump on to an existing post, the experts read through it and pick up on some points and then when they get to the additional post they assume that it is still the same situation so do not get the correct information, always best that you start afresh with your own post and problems, then you will get the correct advice
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top