Replacing a loop in ceiling rose with a junction box

[sep87]

I have just a quick question (i hope) about replacing some lighting.

I currently have a ceiling rose (loop lighting system) that i am going to relpace with a light without a rose. I have access from above so i am installing a junction box in the ceiling and then just wiring up the new light to the junction box.

My question is, what are the regulations regarding mounting of the junction box? everything i have found so far shows the junction box mounted to a stud placed between the ceiling beams. Is it ok to mount the junction box on the side of a ceiling beam? also, does the junction box require mounting at all or can it just rest in the gap in the ceiling?

Alternatively i could just use a choc block instead...what do you recommend? - i'd prefer doing it properly and installing a junction box i think, but i'm not really sure.

 

[OwainDIYer]

You need to use an enclosed junction box and the outer sheath of the cable must continue inside the enclosure, i.e. you should not be able to see the coloured insulation on the wires outside the box.

The JB can be screwed to the side of the joist (neat job) or left lying on the ceiling (not so neat). It must not be dangling from the cables.

You will need a 4 terminal 5 amp box. With most of the round ones you select which cable entry slots you use by turning the cover to different clock-face positions.

You should ensure all switched lives are sleeved red/brown and all bare earth wires are sleeved green/yellow.

 

[sep87]

thanks,

off the top of my head, i can't remember what colour the switched live is, if its black/blue do i need to replace the switch wiring?

also just one further question, i am considering installing a second light in the same room, controlled by the same switch and running from the same junction box. Is this ok? can i just wire it in parallel with the existing light?

also as i would be installing an additional light (in a kitchen), would it require me to notify this to keep to the building regs as per: http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/partp.htm

 

[bernardgreen]

The JB can be screwed to the side of the joist (neat job) or left lying on the ceiling (not so neat). It must not be dangling from the cables.

Not if it is then in-accessible for maintainance and/or fault finding.

If the floor board above will ALWAYS be removable then fixing to a joist can be allowed.

Best option is to use a terminal block in a cover that has cable retaining clamps. This is wired below the ceiling and then moved through the hole which the lamp fitting will conceal when fitted.

 

[sep87]

the floor board above is removable, there is a section about a foot long which is not fixed to the ceiling beams, just rested there below the bathroom lino.

it was like this when i moved in, and i have no reason to attach the floor board.

is this accessible enough? it took me all of 30 seconds to gain access under the floor boards.

 

[OwainDIYer]

thanks,

off the top of my head, i can't remember what colour the switched live is, if its black/blue do i need to replace the switch wiring?

also just one further question, i am considering installing a second light in the same room, controlled by the same switch and running from the same junction box. Is this ok? can i just wire it in parallel with the existing light?

also as i would be installing an additional light (in a kitchen), would it require me to notify this to keep to the building regs as per: http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/partp.htm[/QUOTE]

If swicthed live is black/blue it must be sleeved with red/brown. It does not have to be replaced.

Second light of same switch is wired in parallel with existing light (ie swicthed live, neutral, earth)

Additional light in kitchen would be notifiable under Part P.

If of course there had been a light there before Part P then replacing existing would not be notifiable.

 

[sep87]

so to keep to the regulations, i'm ok replacing a looped ceiling rose with a junction box without need for notification....

but if i were simply wiring in a 2nd twin and earth cable to an existing ceiling rose rose or junction box (to add an extra light in my kitchen) i would need to give notification?


is it possible to self certify at all? at the end of the day, just adding an additional twin and earth requires pretty much the same knowledge as how to wire a plug correctly.

 

[OwainDIYer]

so to keep to the regulations, i'm ok replacing a looped ceiling rose with a junction box without need for notification....

but if i were simply wiring in a 2nd twin and earth cable to an existing ceiling rose rose or junction box (to add an extra light in my kitchen) i would need to give notification?


is it possible to self certify at all? at the end of the day, just adding an additional twin and earth requires pretty much the same knowledge as how to wire a plug correctly.

Yes. Yes, as it's in a kitchen. Yes, if you pay a fee to Building Control, which may be much the same as the cost of an electrician.

Depends how concerned you are about complying with Part Pee.

 

[yorkspark]

as long as the jb is kept accessable then yes
you would need to notify as your modifying the circuit however that is your choice this is a diy forum not the council police and who's to know

 

[mbga9pgf]

as long as the jb is kept accessable then yes
you would need to notify as your modifying the circuit however that is your choice this is a diy forum not the council police and who's to know

Use a Wagobox with restrained (clipped) cables. Maintainance-free connectors have no requirement for access when installed as designed (BS EN 60998-2-2)

Junction box to BS EN 60670-22 or BS 6220.
Junction boxes with screw terminals must be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance or, alternatively, use maintenance-free terminals / connections (Regulation 526.3)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The big problem there is that's not what 526.3 says...

 

[mbga9pgf]

The big problem there is that's not what 526.3 says...

I didnt say it was. Its From appendix 15.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Hager/JB_Guide.pdf


good guide here.

In short, use a Wago box or similar, installed as designed to be, and you have no reason to require access and get your knickers in a twist with creaking, rocking flooring.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Appendix 15 is informative, not normative.

If any informative guidance contradicts the regulations then the regulations take precedence.