...road 'not gritted'

[empip]

A road on which four members of Rhyl Cycling Club were killed in a collision was not gritted on the morning of the tragedy, an inquest jury has heard...

...Motorist, from Abergele, was fined £180 with £35 costs last August and given six points on his licence after admitting having defective tyres.

The court heard that the defective tyres were not a factor in the accident...

...In April, another preliminary inquest hearing was told that the council and the motorist's insurance company had agreed a deal which could pave the way for compensation for the families...

...a police investigation found that Mr Harris's defective tyres - the front pair and rear nearside - were not the cause of the crash.

She said: "The crown took the decision that in the circumstances, tyre tread is there to displace liquid debris from the road to give a better grip.

"In this situation, the examination has found there was no liquid there - it was black ice, consequently the defective tyres couldn't have been a contributory factor to the collision."...

Interesting... I guessed the car should not have been on the road, in unroadworthy condition...

 

[gcol]

I was under the impression that when you slip on ice it was because the pressure on the ice forces it back into a liquid and it's the liquid you slip on?
I was taught that when water freezes it expands. If you don't allow the water to expand, it will freeze at a lower temperature. So by stepping on ice or driving on it you compress it - it's the compression that temporarily returns the ice to a liquid and it's that that you slip on. So there must have been liquid present in the accident. Is my thinking correct here?

 

[bernardgreen]

Yes.. Pressure on ice produces a thin film of water. If the water is then displaced by a treaded tyre more ice melts to produce more water so the lubrication ( the water ) is always there at the point of contact.

So tyres, treaded or slick, have little if any grip to the ice.

Spikes that cut into the ice give the best grip.

 

[big-all]

yes ice does turn to water but you only talking about a few microns thick that would only be enough to form a few drops thats if you could collect it before it refroze

 

[gcol]

yes ice does turn to water but you only talking about a few microns thick that would only be enough to form a few drops thats if you could collect it before it refroze

I didn't mention collecting it, just that water would be present and that's what your car slips on, not the ice.

 

[Trazor]

In September, the A547 in the Abergele area was named among the 11 most deadly roads in north Wales by police.

So this motorist drives with 3 defective tyres on the above road, in the middle of winter.
Does not your insurance specify that your car must be in road worthy condition.

He was fined £180 with £35 costs........Unbelievable, just unbelievable.

 

[BOB D.O.L.E]

Yes.. Pressure on ice produces a thin film of water. If the water is then displaced by a treaded tyre more ice melts to produce more water so the lubrication ( the water ) is always there at the point of contact.

So tyres, treaded or slick, have little if any grip to the ice.

Spikes that cut into the ice give the best grip.

Why not invent a new tyre for these conditions, something like a miniture rudder at the back of the tyre so to stear out of a dangerous situation.

 

[empip]

All that glisters ...

...Ice, said Robert M. Rosenberg, an emeritus professor of chemistry at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wis., and a visiting scholar at Northwestern University, "is a very mysterious solid."
Dr. Rosenberg wrote an article looking at the slipperiness of ice in the December issue of Physics Today, because he kept coming across the wrong explanation for it, one that dates back more than a century...

A 'footnote', with a bullet ....
http://www.physicstoday.org/pt/vol-60/iss-1/16_2.html

 

[gcol]

You're reading too far into this pip - I'm merely suggesting that the surface of the ice (where the pressure was) would turn to water.

 

[empip]

Not disputing watery lubrication etc.
Fleeting application of pressure, is a different story.
I liked the 'footnote' experiment using a bullet in ice...

I was wondering about the decision that 'the bald tyres did not contribute to the accident'... The obvious thought being that the things shouldn't have been on the road... Therefore the car may not have been where it was at the particular time of the crash.

 

[gcol]

Therefore the car may not have been where it was at the particular time of the crash.

Where do you think it was then? You've lost me.

 

[Trazor]

Therefore the car may not have been where it was at the particular time of the crash.

Where do you think it was then? You've lost me.

I think empip means, that if this idiot had fitted good tyres, when he should have done, his life would have taken a slightly different course......The butterfly effect.

 

[gcol]

Ah I see.