Servowarm-esque installation takes hours to warm up!

[rk696]

Hey Guys,

New on the forum, so I hope you can help me.

I've recently moved into a property with a fully pumped ch/hw system, which consists of a Glowworm Fuelsaver 35F boiler (10kw from what i can find out), Euramo Gold pump and "Regalator" valve to switch from HW to CH (looks like a servowarm valve ).

There are 6 radiators (all with TRV's) in total, but 2 are unable to be turned on due to the lockshields valves seizing solid.

Since the cold weather has started, I have noticed in takes forever for the system to heat up (About 20 minutes before I can feel any heat in the rads, and even with the boiler going flat out, the water temp never gets above 48 degrees, but will go to nearly 70 when heating just the water, then the thermostat will turn the gas off.

I have balanced the rads and turned the pump down to speed 1 (was at 3), and put the boiler thermostat up to max, but it hasn't made much difference, apart from making the return/flow temps further from each other, but still within 10 at the boiler.

Any ideas what could be causing it? The boiler has an up to date safety certificate, but I am unsure if it has been serviced or not.

Could it be choked up with soot or carbon? I don't think it's a pump or blockage issue, as I would have expected the boiler to cut out constantly, but it doesn't.

 

[rk696]

Should mention that the house is around 150 years old, and the walls are cold to the touch.

Still shouldn't cause the water to not heat up though, should it? I was thinking that the boiler heat exchanger is caked with soot, which is insulating it from the fire, but I'm no plumber, I'm a spark!

 

[rk696]

Nobody on here that can help me then?

I've read the FAQ's and they mention balancing and having one rad colder than the others etc, but that has all been done and I am having a different problem.

Input is appreciated. I am quite competent, but no means an expert.

 

[45yearsagasman]

The first thing to get checked is the boiler to make sure that it is set up correctly. Age of the house has no bearing. If its rented then call owner.
A simple system should be easy to repair. It does sound like its been a while since a service. Anything to do with the boiler should be left to a RGI.

 

[rk696]

Thanks for the reply. I'll take it up with the landlord and found out when it was last serviced.

What are the Fuelsaver boilers like? Reliable?

 

[bell824]

What are the Fuelsaver boilers like? Reliable?

reliable ? yes cause thers not a lot to them!! efficient? no! age?just about about finished!!!!

but they will run on and on forever probably!!!

 

[D_Hailsham]

Has the system ever worked correctly?

There are 6 radiators (all with TRV's) in total, but 2 are unable to be turned on due to the lockshields valves seizing solid.

One of the rads should not be fitted with a TRV. This should be the one in the room with the wall thermostat.

Get the lockshield valves replaced.

I have balanced the rads and turned the pump down to speed 1 (was at 3), and put the boiler thermostat up to max, but it hasn't made much difference, apart from making the return/flow temps further from each other, but still within 10 at the boiler.

What method did you use when balancing?

Are you saying the temperature diff is 10C at the boiler but much higher across each rad, and the rad differences are not the same? If so, the system has not been properly balanced.

The boiler has an up to date safety certificate, but I am unsure if it has been serviced or not.

Do you rent the property? If so, get on to the landlord and insist he sorts the system out. He has a legal obligation to do so. If he does nothing, get onto the Environmental Health Dept of the local Council.

 

[JohnD]

is one of the radiators, or the cylinder, exceptionally hot?

the jammed lockshields might have been screwed down because they leak. You can try them with a very small adjustable spanner if you like, but protect the carpet first.

 

[rk696]

Cheers for the ideas guys!.

D_Hailsham, I moved into the house a couple of months ago, but I've only started to need the heating this last 2 weeks or so. It has behaved the same all the time I have been here. The regalator valve was stuck on the heating position, so I've had to get the old wd40 out to free it over a few days, and it's fine now.

Don't have a wall thermostat, the boiler is controlled by a British gas programmer which turns the live on to the boiler and pump using the CH button. The hot water button isn't connected to anything at all, instead we have to press the CH button and use the "Regalator" valve to switch between hot water and heating.

I've put some pics for your admiration!

As for balancing the system, I have turned the system on when it was stone cold, and adjusted the lockshields so that the rads all heat up at the same rate. Started by opening the valves + TRV's fully, then turning down the ones which are heating up the fastest so the slower ones catch up. I measured it with an IR thermometer.

The rads with the jammed lockshields aren't that important to me anyway. One of them is in a communal hallway, and the other is in the office next door which has oil filled radiators instead. Apparently they haven't been turned on in 9 years. I've tried a 6" wrench on them, but they won't budge, and I don't want to break them.

Temperature wise, the rads have a similar temp drop across them, within about 5-6 degress, but the boiler still only has a difference of 10 degrees acros the return and flow pipes.

I was trying to get the temperature drop across the radiators higher than 10C, but I can't do it without the lockshields being almost fully closed, making them whistle. I presume this is down to the pump being over sized for the system. It's already set on it's lowest speed.

 

[D_Hailsham]

D_Hailsham, I moved into the house a couple of months ago, but I've only started to need the heating this last 2 weeks or so. It has behaved the same all the time I have been here. The regalator valve was stuck on the heating position, so I've had to get the old wd40 out to free it over a few days, and it's fine now.

Don't have a wall thermostat, the boiler is controlled by a British gas programmer which turns the live on to the boiler and pump using the CH button. The hot water button isn't connected to anything at all, instead we have to press the CH button and use the "Regalator" valve to switch between hot water and heating.

If the Regalator Valve was replaced by a mid-position valve and a cylinder thermostat, you would be able to control the hot water automatically and have the HW on at the same time as the CH.

Without a wall stat, the only control you have over room temperatures are the TRVs. The boiler will continue to run, even if the rooms are up to temperature, until the boiler stat turns the boiler off. This wastes fuels. A wall stat will soon pay for itself.

The rads with the jammed lockshields aren't that important to me anyway. One of them is in a communal hallway, and the other is in the office next door which has oil filled radiators instead. Apparently they haven't been turned on in 9 years. I've tried a 6" wrench on them, but they won't budge, and I don't want to break them.

If you don't intend to use them, I would set the TRVs to the lowest setting.

You should balance the system so the temperature drop across boiler and rads is approx 10C. Read How to balance a CH system

 

[Agile]

Is your manual mixing valve still working?

Even if it is the sooner its replaced the better.

Dont you think that replacing the manual valve and ALL the rad valves next summer would be a good idea?

Tony

 

[Nige F]

Have to agree with Tony - Once did a job for some people who had an oil system that wasn`t working very well - there was this valve in the pipework that was the Mother of your one - industrial sized . Turned out it was doing absolutely nothing more than short circuiting the flow and return from the boiler - like a bypass - . I reckon it had been "liberated" from a hospital near to D_H years ago , because the job was in his town Not sure whether the original fitter was a worker or a patient there.

 

[rk696]

Bit of a thread revival I know, but the system is now working correctly. It turns out that the gas valve was blocked so the flame was only around 1" high, when it should have been a lot higher apparently.

It's still a bit slow, but the rads get too hot to touch so I'm happy.

Cheers for your help lads.