Take that, Trump

[MNW67]

Ya see the shouty people on both sides would have done better to do less public shouting. Nobody wants to negotiate with someone they dislike. It's all about trust and you can't have trust, if there is no meeting of minds.

There was no shouting from Anthropic. The negotiations were secret until Trump and Hegseth made the dispute public on social media.

 

[motorbiking]

There was no shouting from Anthropic. The negotiations were secret until Trump and Hegseth made the dispute public on social media.

The right thing to do was to remain calm and diplomatic and Amodei has expressed regret about allowing leaks. His investors have no doubt had a quiet word.

It’s very hard get to round the table with people you have stated publicly you have no respect for.

One thing I’ve learned, is never let the billionaires do the negotiating, they are just human like the rest of us, but when it gets tough, they cannot help showing arrogance.

 

[Justin Passing]

any company that does business with the U.S. military from engaging in any commercial activity with Anthropic would be severely damaging,

It depends how you ask the question. AI is like that.
Microsoft, Amazon and Google and others have significant dealings with Anthropic. A couple of orders of magnitude more significant than Pentagon dealings.
Open AI is weaseling but they're a minnow.
Trumps ideas would face huge legal obstacles, which would take forever to sort out. He'd likely be buried first.
Anthropic are rather good at what they do. They could always pay lip service , while knobbling their own systems for use in something they object to.
You might be right but I don't think so.
We'll see.

 

[MNW67]

It depends how you ask the question. AI is like that.
Microsoft, Amazon and Google and others have significant dealings with Anthropic. A couple of orders of magnitude more significant than Pentagon dealings.
Open AI is weaseling but they're a minnow.
Trumps ideas would face huge legal obstacles, which would take forever to sort out. He'd likely be buried first.
Anthropic are rather good at what they do. They could always pay lip service , while knobbling their own systems for use in something they object to.
You might be right but I don't think so.
We'll see.

I posted the question I asked and I incorporated Hegseth's exact words when he announced the penalty against Anthropic. But here is my question again:

''if every company which does any business with the us military is banned from any commercial activity with Anthropic, how damaging will that be for Anthropic'

 

[motorbiking]

Open AI is weaseling but they're a minnow.

Minnow? Compared to?

They are over roughly double the “value” of Anthropic. Closer to 3x in fact.

Are you comparing to the infrastructure providers?

 

[morqthana]

Not legally. As I have pointed out. You either agree in the terms or they have no right to do it.

As you said,

Sorry you don't get it. never mind

 

[morqthana]

your hatred of trump has prevented you from being objective.

And your besotted love for him has done the same to you.

You think Anthropic is being forced to do things it doesn't want..

So they are happy to part ways and will assist in the transition, like a responsible supplier (or rather one that likely has a commercial obligation to do so, as is standard).


As I said before, it doesn't matter who is asking to make the changes. The position seems reasonable.

When you go into the details this seems more about the "physical" safeguards in the product, than the terms of the License.

So this is Anthropic's position

"It is the Department’s prerogative to select contractors most aligned with their vision. But given the substantial value that Anthropic’s technology provides to our armed forces, we hope they reconsider. Our strong preference is to continue to serve the Department and our warfighters—with our two requested safeguards in place. Should the Department choose to offboard Anthropic, we will work to enable a smooth transition to another provider, avoiding any disruption to ongoing military planning, operations, or other critical missions. Our models will be available on the expansive terms we have proposed for as long as required.

We remain ready to continue our work to support the national security of the United States."

This is Trump's:

And this is Hesgeth's:

The right thing to do was to remain calm and diplomatic

On the basis of the above, who do you think is being the calmest, and most diplomatic?

It’s very hard get to round the table with people you have stated publicly you have no respect for.

On the basis of the above, who do you think is most deserving of respect?

One thing I’ve learned, is never let the billionaires do the negotiating, they are just human like the rest of us, but when it gets tough, they cannot help showing arrogance.

On the basis of the above, who do you think is showing the most arrogance?

 

[King Billy]

MBK delves into his little bag of tricks and emerges with an answer to a question I didn't ask, a straw man and some false equivalency.

That's pretty normal for a few on here.

 

[King Billy]

The US Military systems aren't all THAT big, economically speaking.

The US weapons sector is the world's largest, controlling approximately 43% of the global arms trade. In 2023, US foreign weapons sales hit a record $238 billion. The top 41 US defense companies generated $317 billion in arms revenue in 2023,

The industry is a major part of the US economy, with over 30 U.S. companies increasing their arms revenue in 2023. The sector is currently experiencing a period of high demand, with significant increases in both Foreign Military Sales (FMS) and Direct Commercial Sales (DCS)

 

[Justin Passing]

You're right of course, I got it backwards. Nappy brain. Puts a different complexion on why they (Anthropic) think they can be a little maverick, and why Open AI want to differentiate themselves from the recalcitrant littlun.

Anthropic people are some of the cleverest, but they only have only 1000 or so employees. 18 million projected revenue per employee .
Anthropic are talking about an IPO, with a valuation probably around 350 - $400bn, which makes them expensive as a takover swallow.

Anthropic's recently announced programming agent which is proficient in Cobol analysis and generation with a natural language layer, is of particular use for legacy software such as found in government systems. Bummer for the Pentagon if they aren't allowed to use it for the boring stuff. Though IBM and others do have tools for Cobol, used by specialists for Cobol geeks, but there arent as many of them, these days.
The Anthropic Claude agent makes it much cheaper to work on cobol, so if Trump wants to exclude anyone using it, he's gonna have to stump up more money to pay some company, if he can find one, which doesn't..

 

[Justin Passing]

The US weapons sector is the world's largest, controlling approximately 43% of the global arms trade. In 2023, US foreign weapons sales hit a record $238 billion. The top 41 US defense companies generated $317 billion in arms revenue in 2023,

The industry is a major part of the US economy, with over 30 U.S. companies increasing their arms revenue in 2023. The sector is currently experiencing a period of high demand, with significant increases in both Foreign Military Sales (FMS) and Direct Commercial Sales (DCS)

Um, so what? Wake up, Anthropic don't make guns and bullets.

The Pentagon IS a customer of Anthropic's,
it provides of the order of one hundredth of their projected revenue.

Like, if you were a paints manufacturer, and you didn't want it used for fighty boats, a Navy not using your paint at all, woudn't exactly keep you awake at night. Even if you were the only company who happened to be able to make Battleship Grey.

 

[King Billy]

Um, so what? Wake up, Anthropic don't make guns and bullets.

They make parts that go into weapons, and those weapons are a major part of US's industry.

Like, if you were a paints manufacturer, and you didn't want it used for fighty boats, a Navy not using your paint at all, woudn't exactly keep you awake at night. Even if you were the only company who happened to be able to make Battleship Grey.

I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of Ethical Manufacturing.
You're either an ethical manufacturer, or you're not.
There's no pussyfooting around the edges.